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    Flexibility!!!!

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    Davey

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    Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Davey on Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:17 pm

    Flexibility!!!!

    Do you think its possible to achieve full box splits at a later age (in your 30's) if you've never been able to do it?


    I trained my legs when I was younger and managed to get box splits to about 10 off the floor but I'm really struggling now to get back to there.

    Any good stretching advice is greatly appreciated.


    Cheers
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Al Peasland on Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:29 pm

    Yes!

    And gently does it mate

    If you want, we'll incorporate more stretching in the Sunday Morning class

    I used to be able to do it as a young Karateka - have the pictures to prove it - although will only show them to friends who won't laugh at my short spikey hair and disproportionately long legs to the rest of my body Very Happy

    I still have pretty good flexibility and reckon I could get box splits back farily quickly - perhaps we should set a challenge in the class

    I think you can do anything at any age if you put your mind to it

    Gently does it though - make sure you are warm, and don't force it
    Feel the burn, sit in it and then relax - repetition is the key
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    Davey

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Davey on Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:11 pm

    Cheers for the reply Al

    Sunday class Stretching, that will be up to you mate and the other students

    Whats your thoughts on repetition though? daily or every other day?

    Dave..
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Al Peasland on Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:12 pm

    Stretching Daily is a must

    Tony Terranova is a great person to talk to on this kind of thing - he does alot of breathing and stretching exercises every morning

    For me, providing it's done sensibly, lightly, then this is something that should be done every day and it's also helps make quick progress - otherwise you end up losing the bit you've gained each day

    But that's just my opinion

    Ian

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Ian on Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:41 am

    'Scuse me jumping on an old post chaps but Im new on here so just browsing :-)

    When I was a younger karateka (thoughts of Uncle Albert 'during the war'...;-) I used to think box splits were the ultimate goal, then I started getting more and more interested in SD and started to realise the ability to kick head height wasnt that important so my question for you chaps is, do you think excessive flexibility is an important asset or is it just cool to be able to do it? Either way Id still love to be able to though!

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Dave Turton on Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:13 am

    not often I disagree with Al (I darent he's bigger than me Ha Ha)

    but daily stretching has been shown in some cases to SLOW down feleibility

    as with most things physical Weights, running, training, sparring whatever) the ideal really seems to be doing alternate days.

    The body has to adjust and recover, so any regime seems better alternate days unless you are a full time PRO athlete.

    but whatever methods you do remember the golden rule

    WARM UP TO STRETCH DONT STRETCH TO WARM UP


    Last edited by Dave Turton on Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling mistakes)
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Al Peasland on Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:01 pm

    Thanks Dave - not going to argue back either - I may be bigger but you have far more years experience (I mean that in the nicest possible way of course) I love you

    In answer to Ian - you are correct that kicking head height isn't really that practical for reality training - but if you're training is for other aspects, such as karate sparring or BJJ competition, then flexibility is a big factor.

    In addition, so long as you train senisibly and do as Dave suggest, Warm up to Stretch, then it can only help to make you more supple and agile.
    After all - I'd rather be flexible than the alternative of someone who can crack heads outside but groans everytime he gets up off the chair.

    Self protection training should do just that..... Protect yourself - whether that be from a fight in the street to ill health and siezed joints.

    Oh yeah - it also looks cool - and there's nothing wrong with that Wink

    cheers

    Rob Poyton

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Rob Poyton on Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:35 pm

    Check out Pavel Tatsouline's work, it's an approach based around learning to relax the muscle in order to stretch, good stuff and you won't injure yourself either!

    cheers

    Rob

    Mr Natural

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:08 pm

    Do you think there could be some downsides to being flexible outside the 'natural' range though?

    More isn't always better.

    Mr Natural

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Mr Natural on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:13 pm

    I just found a free book on it btw - here

    CameronQ

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by CameronQ on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:24 am

    Mr Natural
    Sorry for coming in late on this one, but in regards to your question, I have trouble seeing h ow being more flexible can ever be a disadvantage.
    I know some people talk of excessive flexibility as a disadvantage but to that I would suggest that it is not the above-average flexibility that can present a problem but poor muscular stability around the joint. Logically, I think if a joint can be more flexible as long as the joint is stable then it should be fine.
    Look forward to other viewpoints as always.
    Cheers
    CFQ

    CameronQ

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by CameronQ on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:45 am

    Davey
    You've received some great answers there so my comments may be superfluous.
    Nevertheless, let me just add that even if you never reach full splits, the effort to get there will definitely make you more flexible, which alone is worth it.
    I tend to feel that head kicks or not (and increased flexibility will also make lower level kicks more powerful) the primary benefit of increased flexibility is injury prevention.
    Cheers
    CFQ

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Dave Turton on Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:50 am

    It is possible to be over-supple to the detriment of other physical abilities

    Nature imposes certain 'restrictions' on what is required 'naturally' for the physiology of any given animal species.

    Hip flexibility is more important than 'leg' flexibility for the human species.

    Go beyond that which is required as essential for aiding the survival of the species and it then become 'un-natural' as strength and 'anchorage' becomes suspect
    for the better 'working' of the human frame the 'lotus' folding of the legs is more useful than going BEYOND full side or front splits

    CameronQ

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by CameronQ on Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:36 pm

    Dave Turton wrote:It is possible to be over-supple to the detriment of other physical abilities
    Hmmm, I agree with reserve. Tend to feel that people who are truly over-supple are extremely rare. From my experience often when we talk about joints that are over flexible to the detriment of the other physical attributes, it is not so much over-flexible as under-anchored, to use the (good) word you chose. So I think the problem isn't the extreme flexibility so much as the insufficient strength to support the joint. If the joint "anchor" can be strengthened to support the increase in flexibility, no matter how extreme, I can only see that as positive, no? If the joint isn't anchored enough, then yes, the flexibility can cause problems. But that becomes a case of insufficient joint support, not hyper-flexibility.

    I think I have only ever seen one person, a young ballet dancer, who I would say was detrimentally hyper-flexible. And interestingly the ballet school was not trying to reduce the range of motion but instead increase the strength of the muscular support around the joints.

    CFQ

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by Dave Turton on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:27 am

    fair points.. however the END product for ballet (or other) dancers is NOT impact at the point of flexibility.
    Dancers require their flexibility for 'holding' in 'fresh air' positions.

    Any 'overly flexible' joint, especially legs/hips (although shoulders suffer as well) in the martial arts will suffer on IMPACT.. people do these shwoy positions, like box splits on chairs etc etc, when in fact their end goal should be increased impact and targeting.
    if any joint is trained simply to be flexible/supple when the training in fact should be directed towards impact NOT show, then the joint can, will and has suffered.

    I personally know some old pro wrestlers whose shoulders would just 'pop' out in certain locks because their joints were hyper-supple.

    often questions and actual training related to flexibility is really about just the flexibility NOT how it influences IMPACT.

    Every kick and strike is really designed for projecting impact on an opponent, increasing flexibility without correctly applied impact training AT THE SAME TIME, will result in both poor impact and a tendancy towards joint damage or strain.
    making the anchors just stronger in HOLDING a position is only margionally beneficial to impact.

    combat arts are unique in joint movement. especially impact methods.. think about it ... you move a limb through non-resistant fresh air, then suddenly the joint is subjected to an (almost) immovable object.

    its this sudden resistance that causes problems when the joint is 'hyper-supple' it requires specific training methods

    whoops... sorry to go on.. Ha Ha

    CameronQ

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    Re: Flexibility!!!!

    Post by CameronQ on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:51 pm

    Fair points and not in conflict with what I am thinking I feel. What you're saying is the flexibility is pointless without the anchor and I think I am saying the same thing, albeit probably not as clearly.
    Smile Cheers
    CFQ

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