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    Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

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    geordiedave

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    Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by geordiedave on Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:48 pm

    We all know about the use of "the Fence" in the standing position, but what can you do when you are in a situation which does not allow it . For example you are seated in a bar and someone comes up to you wanting to fight and they're standing over you, so now you are like only 4ft and he's 6ft of hatred. Or your on the Bus after a night out, similar scenario, your seated and he's standing over you wanting to take your face off.
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Peter Skillen on Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:19 am

    Practice hitting from very low seated positions I have lots of drills, i will post some this week for your to look at and see if they help.
    I think the most important thing is awareness of your surroundings to prevent said attack but if that isn't possible then create as much noise and space as possible using anything in front of you chair table etc. just learn to hit hard and fast from seated position.

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Dave Turton on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:42 am

    I run courses, have a DVD and have diploma levels for what we term 'adverse situations' that is anything other than faceing

    seated, Lying, doorways, stairs, cars, etc etc

    too few instructors cover these aspects
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Al Peasland on Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:14 am

    I agree - these types of scenarios aren't covered enough in most "reality based" classes.

    The problem is though, that the options and varieties of scenarios are endless - so it becomes very difficult to cover all possibilities - certainly to any degree of depth where you can hone techniques that will fit that particular scenario.

    For example - sitting down at a table would be different to sitting down on a park bench, to sitting down on a picnic table where your legs are more restricted under the table, to sitting down on a bus - to sitting in your car.
    The list goes on and on.

    For me, it's more important to develop tools that fit roughly in most situations
    The first key one is where you are sitting.

    Your choice of table and then choice of seated location at that table, in a restaurant for example.
    Or your choice of seat on a bus - top deck at the back, or bottomg deck near the driver.
    By the window of by the aisle.

    These choices that you get to make up front (most of the time) can make a bigger difference and give you more or less options and chances of success should it kick off.

    Then - your decision to act early either to prevent or engage in the conflict is the next factor.
    Remaining seated on a bus when a couple of chavs get on board - hoping they won't do anything to you - or getting up and off at the same stop as they get on because you were more aware and were watching as the bus came to the stop.

    The same applies to tube trains. Staying alert so that you can see who is about to get on your carriage when the train pulls in - means you give yourself the option to get off the train at the same station. Not being aware means you may then have to deal with these threats when your train pulls out of the station and you are stuck in the same carriage as them.

    Obviously - this will not apply to all cases and there are some things we can't avoid. Nor should we go through our lives avoiding everything - otherwise we won't actually do anything we want to - but in my opinion, these things are far more important than what technique fits what situation

    If it does get physical - most can still be dealt with, with a solid right hand and plenty of aggression - you just throw it from a different position

    My Restriction training DVD covers some ways of learning to punch from a very close range - when confined - say in a phonebox or pushed against a wall - seated, kneeling, etc etc
    The main reason for Restriction Training is far more important than learning these techniques - but it's useful nonetheless

    Hope this helps a little

    Al Wink

    Derrick64

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Derrick64 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:30 pm

    Do you guys ask people to raise these issues so you can advertise your products? I'm only half joking!

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Dave Turton on Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:11 pm

    I hope so mate .. as I only answer what is asked.. if you think I am advertising .. I am insulted by you.. in fact I have had to wait a while before I commented as I was quite angry by your comments

    Al I disagree mate about 1000's of scenarios .. there are ony a handful of PRINCIPLES that need be applied .. the techniques follow the principle sand work well

    geordiedave

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by geordiedave on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:47 pm

    I agree with all the aforementioned. Yes Al, good awareness to anticipate what a "potential" situation could develop into I totally agree with say if your on a bus back from a Saturday night out,and a few chavs get on, but as you rightly point out sometimes it is not practical to avoid a , for what of a better word, a "maybe" situation.I fully understand the need to drill restrictive punching ,though a good right hook from a seated position may not work, not because you do not have the power and accuracy, but because you don't have the reach.I was KO'd a lot of years ago by a local bully who had a big reputation in a similar scenario.I was in pub sitting down at one of those round iron tables with my back to the wall and he come over giving me grief "Do you wanna talk about it in the back",of course I didn't want any of it because of comebacks not only to myself but family and property.He goes away and ten minutes later he's back, more aggressive so I put my hands out in front of me like in a stop sign, and was told "Don't stick your chest out of me" BANG cross straight to my eye socket,then a uppercut on to my jar which just sent me out.But what I do recall is that the advantage he had standing to move around to pick his shots and the distance between him and me that left me with no reach.

    Derrick64

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Derrick64 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:54 pm

    Dave Turton wrote:I hope so mate .. as I only answer what is asked.. if you think I am advertising .. I am insulted by you.. in fact I have had to wait a while before I commented as I was quite angry by your comments

    I did not intend to insult you. But the questioner did not ask whether or not you had a course and/or a DVD out on the subject. He asked about the subject.
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    SpiritMuayThai

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by SpiritMuayThai on Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:00 pm

    The whole purpose of the forum is to enable instuctors, students and interested parties alike, to share information, answer questions, and PROVIDE RESOURCES AND SOLUTIONS.

    The original question was basically does anyone have any info ( RESOURCE, MAYBE? ) on defence from seated position. It was an open question.

    There are no one word answers,or quick fixes.

    Dave was merely stating that he has resources available if he's looking for them.

    Those of us seeking to enhance our skills appreciate the efforts of likeminded instructors to make these resources available to all.

    Derrick64

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Derrick64 on Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:23 pm

    geordiedave wrote:We all know about the use of "the Fence" in the standing position, but what can you do when you are in a situation which does not allow it . For example you are seated in a bar and someone comes up to you wanting to fight and they're standing over you, so now you are like only 4ft and he's 6ft of hatred. Or your on the Bus after a night out, similar scenario, your seated and he's standing over you wanting to take your face off.

    So, if someone asks a question, the accepted response is to try and sell them something?

    Hey, not my forum. I'm only asking. Looking back at other threads it does seem to apply quite a lot of the time.
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    Michael W Wright

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Michael W Wright on Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:31 am

    The outcome of a violent situation, any violent situation, will be determined by a small number of inexorable factors. In my opinion these are:

    Experience, Attributes, Conditioning, Intelligence, and Luck.

    If you have a strong blend of the first four, and get a break from the last one, then all of the endless pontification becomes worthless. Whenever I have taught people who have a solid mix of these qualities, it doesn't matter what scenario you put them in - they just perform.

    One of the biggest frustrations I personally have with martial arts is the need to dissect and compartmentalise the nature of a fight down to every conceivable scenario. If as an individual you have the physical, mental and emotional attributes to handle yourself in combat then it really doesn't matter whether you are standing up, sitting down, lying down, levitating or horizontal gyrating.

    You either can or you can't, you either do or you don't, you either will or you won't.

    That's just my view gentlemen, each to their very own.
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Peter Skillen on Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:21 am

    I agree michael Train yourself to handle situations and stress developed in those situations. Handle that and half the battle is won.

    Derrick 64: Hi derrick your opinion is valued and you have every right to question the top class instructors that post on this forum but please try not to bait people.If an argument develops please agree to disagree and lets move on to something more positive and relevant to the question asked.
    Peter Skillen, Moderator

    Nick Engelen

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Nick Engelen on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:56 am

    In Japan they used to work from their knees, it's still practised in arts like aikido and judo. In once Bruce Lee's books there is a few pictures of fighting from a seated position. Musashi said to make your fighting stance your daily stance and your daily stance your fighting stance. As said before I guess it's a lot to do with awareness and avoidance and training the mindset to keep fighting despite your opponent having an advantage along with developing the atributes to develop power in punches etc... Mindset is key.
    Kind Regards,
    Nick Engelen
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:20 am

    I think Michael has summed it up

    Not alot to add except - if your range is not good enough to deliver a solid right hand - then change the range!
    A simplistic comment I know - and I don't just mean that the only technique out there is a right hand - I'm using this as an example to get across the same point that Michael did - ie, forget lots of variations - train something that is simple and can be used in the majority of cases.

    I would say train your awareness and your attitude (replace attitude with intent, will power, desire to win, emotive aggression, etc etc)

    In Geordiedave's case - and I wasn't there so I can't comment specifically - but...
    If the guy has fronted you once already in the pub - then leave!
    And if you can't, won't, leave then be sure to be on your feet when he comes back over the second time. He won't be coming back over to buy you a pint - and if he is - then at least you'll be standing to accept it off him.

    If he comes back over and you don't see him until it's too late - then that's your fault, so then you have to deal with the situation where you are seated and he is not.
    And there's no magic pill for that - just plenty of attitude, desire to win, intention and aggression!

    As I said, I wasn't there so not commenting directly - but using Geordie dave's story as a basis for my suggestions.

    And Derrick - yes I mentioned my products in my post - and has already been noted - it is used as a way of emphasising my points and views and as an offer of resource for those visiting the forum.
    If someone elses book or product also helps answer a question I will happily recommend that too.

    I hope this is ok with you

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Dave Turton on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:41 am

    My last word on this as I am NOT being dragged into an argument on here by anybody.. especially Derrick64

    The original post equated to what would you do, and as we (or at least most of us) exist on these forum to help others by answering their quesries, or adding our experiences etc ..(I am starting my 50th year this year in the combat arts) I mentioned that we DO train for such events and that seminars and DVD's exist.. I couldnt mention other instructors if I didnt or dont know what THEY have on offer.
    But as head of a national self defence organisation I am INFORMING forum members of their options if they wished to further study a subject.

    Plus mate your comment .. so if you ask a question we SELL you something is cheap, unworthy of your intelligence and still insulting to me personally

    Derrick64

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Derrick64 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:52 pm

    Peter, thanks for letting me visit your forum. It is appreciated.

    Dave - 50 years hasn't thickened your skin any, but does seem to have bolstered your ego.

    As for defending from a seated position this is one of the reasons I have left sport behind. They just don't cover things like this in sport. I am reading with interest, but have no money to hand over I'm afraid.

    Dave Turton

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Dave Turton on Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:11 pm

    what??

    go away you are an idiot
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:25 pm

    Derrick - I'm not sure what your motive is here - but you have been able to drag a perfectly good thread away from it's originally purpose.

    A bit of banter is fine - but so is a little respect for those who have the necessary qualifications and experience to offer advice.

    Marc1978

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Marc1978 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:33 pm

    I have the three volume set of Dave's Combat Grappling series which i bought about ten years ago on vhs i still consider them to be an excellent set and any of others that Dave has released are worth the price.
    Geoff Thompson released a DVD on restriction training back in 2008,it features himself and Tony Somers teaching all aspects of this type of restriction training ie striking while sitting down/lying down/on your knees etc and is one i would recommend.

    I haven't yet seen Al Peaslands restriction DVD but am going to purchase it in the next couple of weeks as i see it now comes in a 'Combo' package with a ''Free T-shirt'',which means i can now get my hands on one of those promo CSP T-shirts which i've been waiting so long for Very Happy

    Marc cheers
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Peter Skillen on Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:48 pm

    Derrick your attitude towards members of this forum are not appreciated and this is not my forum it is our forum but i ill not let it slip into the depths of negativity. If you have something to say regarding the original question asked please be informative in your answer. Remember membership here is not compulsory so if you don't like it here please shut the door on your way out.


    Wink

    Derrick64

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Derrick64 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:26 pm

    Maybe I have touched a nerve? Not sure. Dave's last word wasn't his last word after all though.

    I was the person trying to generate support for this forum not too long ago. It is hardly well attended, and good threads are rare. Threads are rare!

    Can anyone give me a link to any others please? One where people share views without money having to change hands?
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Peter Skillen on Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:16 pm

    After looking back through what you have posted nothing you have posted boarders on constructive. your posts are nothing but flaming baiting and berating I suggest you either add something constructive to this forum or leave. Your attitude will not be tolerated here. Maybe you should post on another forum maybe brian can re-accommodate you!
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    Luke Mannion

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Luke Mannion on Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:07 pm

    I've trained quite abit with Al but haven't had the pleasure to train with Dave yet, neither have ever come across as hugely money orientated or fans of the hard sell.

    As for this forum being quiet at times, probably as most people on here are busy training and don't get involved with the usual forum crap. It'd be the same if the cast in Eastenders suddenly all got jobs, stopped having affairs, spending every minute in a pub and led constructive lives. It'd be a good example but the ratings would sure plummet!
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:36 pm

    cheers

    geordiedave

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    Re: Defending yourself and attacking from a seated position

    Post by geordiedave on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:14 pm

    Thanks to Dave T, Al, Peter, Michael for your advice and tips it has put the "seated scenario" into context, and in my case I might include it in a scenario training drill. The event that occurred with me years ago took a long time to get over, it was similar to the scene in Geoff Thompson's "Clubbed" film where a local bully kicks the shit out of him in the working mens club. This bully who done me if you beat him he'd be back with a sawn-off. Al you make a valid point though that if there is no punching range, then create another range, so if it means you go into grappling range onto the floor with tables and glasses flying so be it.

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