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    4.20am....you wake up....

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    Disco Fingers

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    4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Disco Fingers on Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:38 pm

    noises downstairs. one or more intruders.

    do you have a pre-planned stratgy, and if so what is it?

    Thanks in advance...

    DF
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    bobspour

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by bobspour on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:08 pm

    You have three choices:
    1. Hide upstairs and be quiet and hope they will go away...
    2. Move around upstairs and hope they hear you and run away...
    3. Get down the stairs and make them go away...how dare they break into my f***ing house!!!

    Guess which option I choose.

    Answers on a postcard please
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    Disco Fingers

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Disco Fingers on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:18 pm

    my plan is as follows...and bear in mind i have young children and a wife.

    call police immediately i am sure that intruders are in the house. wait upstairs in the dark, whilst wife goes to wait with the children. if i am being robbed, i will allow them to take our goods because i am insured.

    If they make an attempt to come upstairs, i see that as them moving from a burglary to something far more serious, and I plan to try and stop them reaching the top stair. the wife also knows this plan, and believe me if they get past me, the wife will be like a mama bear protecting her cubs.

    thats my plan, can anyone see flaws or advise me of what else i/we may need to consider?
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    D.Hughes
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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by D.Hughes on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:35 pm

    id go back to sleep.

    did i mention i live in a flat?

    lol!

    on a more serious note, id grab my equalizer. which is a dumbbell bar, and beat the s*** out of them. with no stairs, in a small flat, they would be too close to my family for me to make any other choice.


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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Guest on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:38 pm

    Erm Bob

    Im taking a chance on this one mate, I was going to phone a friend, but sent a text instead. he said " Bob Spour ? " erm.... Id go for option 3 mate.

    so had to clirify my thoughts as couldnt see you hiding upstairs. Very Happy

    Im Partially with Disco on this tbh as I have kids and a mrs also.
    HOWEVER....

    calling the police yes, definately.
    making sure the children were safe with my fiance, yes.

    if I thought for one second he was likely to come upstairs. I would be on his A%% like a fly on S**$.... making sure he was not wanting to come into my home again any time soon or anyone elses for that matter.

    If I didnt have the children and jayne to consider id be with bob, but again until it actually happened I could not say for sure, but my main priority is making sure he did NOT get anywhere near jayne and the kids.

    Still love number 3 though... fantastic.

    cheers
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Les Turpin on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:49 pm

    option 3.

    without a shadow of a doubt. they had 2 choices. they could have walked past my house or they could break into it, if they went for the later then they suffer the consequences.

    i am quite happy to justify my actions against them including there death for threatening my family..i would not neccesarily go to kill them but if they die because of my actions then thats just to bad.

    you can come up with a thousand scenarios, including, he might have a gun, he might be mentally disturbed or ill, he might just want to say hi, he could be a cop looking for someone....

    i will die trying to put them down.

    no brainer really, i am a big believer in "a mans home is his castle"

    erm yeah then i would call the police Shocked
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    bobspour

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by bobspour on Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:57 pm

    to be serious though...I had an incident somewhat similar to this when I lived in Hereford. We were constantly alert to the fact that our houses could be broken into by undesirables. So we were always prepared. I knew the layout of my house intimately and where I had weapons I could lay my hands on.

    I went down the stairs as quietly as possible suddenly bursting into the living room. The guy jumped through the window and out onto the street..his pathetic pal ran for the back door but never made it. I gripped him whilst my missus phoned the police! Many petty criminals bottle it when cornered or caught...
    Incidentally the guy who jumped through my window was later picked up in A&E ....
    Job Done!

    P.s. I also had 2 very young boys in the house at that time...

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Guest on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:20 am

    Option 3 it is then....

    I never had anyone break into my house luckily enough.
    If it means keeping jayne and the kids safe then im going to do whatever it takes to make sure they stay safe.

    Myself and Jayne have discussed this before, and I thought much the same as bob does on the subject. my argument was that if this was to happen, she takes the kids into any of the upstairs rooms, closes the door and I go down and confront joe chav in my house with a good dose of pain to make sure he was no threat and like les would do whatever it took to make sure my family stayed safe.

    Stay safe guys
    Craig
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Les Turpin on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:28 am

    nice one Bob, glad it worked out ok.

    Lee Morrison

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Lee Morrison on Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:51 am

    I tend to think of home invasion as a whole different ball game i.e. if you break into my house as where my children sleep, you'd better have a plan B for dealing with me cause I'm gonna f##k you up beyond all recognition.

    A plan of action is always sensible, first and foremost family safety, so a few items of KIT. The ideal is for the wife and kids end up in one room, best chance here if theres more than one bedroom, is grab the smallest child and get together in one room.

    If the door locks then lock it, if not use a door wedge from the inside, these are great the door has to lift over the height of the wedge to be compromised and that 's not happening with the door shut, the only way in now is to break through the door.

    Obviously need to call the police, so a mobile charged and ready, back this up with a nice beefy impact weapon just in case. I still adhere to something useable in terms of equaliser in every room.

    The choice now for me, is to stay in the room with them, good advice material objects can be replaced and you should have insurence. Or sneak to the violated part of the dwelling, and make no mistake you are being violated now; and smash living f##k out of anyone standing till there own mum won't recognise them.

    I know which camp i'm standing in.
    Peace....

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Guest on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:59 am

    Thanks for that Lee.

    Sound advice so am re thinking my plan and tweaking it a little I think.
    Had most of that covered but always good to make sure you have a definate plan so good ideas from there which im definately going to add.

    Thanks again
    Craig

    cheers
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    Dik

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Dik on Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:51 pm

    I'm definately standing in Lee's camp here too.

    I take that sort of violation VERY personally. Kind of the same ballpack as someone picking on or attacking my loved ones. I'm getting a little triggered just thinking about it.

    Plus, I would like to think that word would get round that this was not a great place to break into after that happened

    Dik

    PS 4.20am - I am an angry mofo if I'm woken up by scally noise. Laughing
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    Abnett

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Abnett on Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:31 pm

    I've got pretty much the same plan as those with kids. Get them and the mrs safely locked in a room together and leave a phone with them to call the police, then i'd go confront the scum. As long as my family is safe i'm happy to put myself on the line protecting them.
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    Disco Fingers

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Disco Fingers on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:48 am

    So...It seems like most of us, although not myself, would ensure the family was safe upstairs and then go down to confront/fight/attack the intruder/s. Here then is my question...if the family is tucked away upstairs, am I to assume that you guys plan on going downstairs to defend your goods? You see, if it's not the goods you are defending, then what is it? The word 'violation' has been used, and I both understand and respect what that means. However, on the other side of the coin, I understand that most RBSD/Combatives instructors and practitioners recommend avoidance as one of the main tools in your armoury. If avoidance is to be practiced on the street, why not in the home? I ask the following with respect...

    Are you going downstairs to fight for pride, ego or for some other fear-based reaction? Even if it's yes, no big deal, just something I am curious about.

    From my own point of view, there is nothing in the house worth dying for, except my own flesh and blood. If the intruders want the widescreen, they can have it. If they want my laptop, they can have it. We are insured and we will get the money/items back. When I picture these things, I simply cannot risk dying and depriving my little ones a father, and my wife, a husband, just to defend my castle. I will probably get flak for saying it, but it's where I am right now, although I am prepared to change my view based on good solid reasoning from anyone that can offer it.

    On another forum, C2 Core Combatives founder, Mick Coup, said the following in response to a similar question...

    The question is very general, so then the answer has to be too - if we are talking about a 'hot' burglary/noises-in-the-night scenario, the last thing that should be done is to escalate a trespass and theft into an assault and/or much worse. My standard advice, in general, is to secure all loved ones into one lockable room, that is equipped with some form of cellular communication, with strict instructions only to unlock the door if you specifically tell them NOT to do so - in case of forced duress - and position yourself at the top of the staircase, lights on and noisy, resisting the urge to initially investigate downstairs.

    Weapons? Choose something compact enough to be wielded in a confined space - and this includes firearms if these are an option - baseball bats and the like should be avoided, being clumsy and easily grabbed/passed - this includes spears too. Sharp implements are effective for holding bad guys at bay, and a couple of 10" butcher knives, or claw hammers, or one of each wielded by someone determined to defend his family stood firm at the top of a narrow staircase would certainly deter me, especially if the police had been called, the clock was ticking and nothing was stopping me leaving.

    Points to note: If someone is in your house stealing, they don't want to hurt you - they are there for the goodies - but put yourself between them and their way out, they will shift focus - no DVD/XBOX/Laptop is worth getting jumped by an unseen accomplice, so leave your ego out of it - don't leave your family at their mercy while you bleed out on your hearth rug - creeping around a house looking for bad guys doesn't even work in the movies, protect your family!

    If they were in the house to hurt someone in the first place, it's a different story - and a bleak one at that, hopefully you'll get pre-warning as they break-in, but don't count on it - if I'm kicking your door in at 0400 I will be on you in seconds, how awake are you going to be? Common MO is to identify the strongest resistance first - the adult males - and eliminate them asap. Fighting in the dark, from sleep, semi-naked and from your bed is something you should address in training, and weapons access is a nightmare with practice, but non-existant without it.

    The real answer to all this has already been remarked upon, whilst the question was specifically aimed - in a general kind of way - at a 'combat/contact management' scenario, the solution always lies with 'threat management' - improve home security to the point where it deters, and re-directs scumbags somewhere else. In other posts I've covered the attack process, and discussed at length the importance of influencing target selection, with yourself as a poor option for a would-be attacker.

    If all bets were off, and laws too, a chopped-down 870 with plenty of 00 ammo, white light and laser - backed-up with a high capacity semi-auto loaded with Glaser rounds and a solid fixed-blade would be a good choice for making a stand - but if I was alone and did go hunting the pistol would be the primary option due to manoeverability - if the Rotties and trap-door acid pit hadn't finished the bastards first!
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    Dave Stanswood

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Dave Stanswood on Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:06 pm

    I had an incident a few years ago whilst living in an unsavoury part of portsmouth. The lesson i learned was preparing for home invasion with items placed around the house is a must but the key is not to look at the physical aspects but look at how well your property is secured in the first place. If its done well and they are chancers they dont get in job done. If its done well and they still get in then they are determined and view your property as a prime target then they have just royaly f***ed up and stepped into something they have not counted on. But be warned they obviously want whats in there badly and they will be carrying items to break in that can be used as weapons. So you need to even the score on that front.
    Its a really scary scenario either way.
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    Abnett

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Abnett on Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:36 pm

    I'd be confronting the person with a view to detaining them. Why should the crime go unpunished. If they got the stuff they wanted and I did nothing, they'd be well away by the time the police got there. No offense intended but a chocolate fire-guard would be more effective than the police by the time they arrived. Currently a close family friend went missing "without a trace" just after new year this year and no-one has seen or heard from them, and no body has been found - yet. Thus my faith in the police force (and from past events) is somewhat next to zilch.

    At the end of the day it's quite a delicate subject as in the heat of the moment we may have a plan, but if panic set in, the plan may as well not exist. As long as my family are safe, i'm happy.
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Les Turpin on Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:44 pm

    nice post disco fingers ...maybe i should elaborate on my first post.

    i am answering as asked to a scenario that has been presented to me and one which i have thought about often. i respect what all the experts say, Lee, Bob, Mick, al..but at the end of the day i am pretty sure we are all on the same page

    i would make sure my family are safe and we have a phone in every room and all the precaution stuff as mentioned blah blah blah....

    the bottom line is i dont want any body to think they can walk into my home and take my widescreen, cheque book, microwave, dvd player ...whatever..

    i will absolutley go FAKING FERAL.. if anybody walks into my home to take my life or family or possesions...

    they are scum and dont even have the right to look at my home let alone get in it.....

    this country is plagued by petty criminals getting away with loads of crap, i will easily make up a story in my favour to any officer while mr scumbag is dead or dying in my hallway.

    like i said.

    THEY HAD A CHOICE TO WALK PAST, IF THEY DID NOT THEN THEY PAY THE CONSEQUENCES.

    simple really
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    Disco Fingers

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Disco Fingers on Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:14 pm

    Les Turpin wrote:the bottom line is i dont want any body to think they can walk into my home and take my widescreen, cheque book, microwave, dvd player ...whatever..
    I hear you Les, it's just that destroying one intruder will not guarantee that future intruders don't try the same thing. If you can't guarantee to prevent a repeat performance, is it possible that you are risking everything, for electrical goods?
    Les Turpin wrote:i will absolutley go FAKING FERAL.. if anybody walks into my home to take my life or family or possesions...
    I'm with you on the first two, intruders would have to kill me or incapacitate me to stop my attempting to ruin them. On the last one.....well, you know how I feel.
    Les Turpin wrote:this country is plagued by petty criminals getting away with loads of crap, i will easily make up a story in my favour to any officer while mr scumbag is dead or dying in my hallway.
    Or....you go downstairs and find two adrenalised and large pumped up criminals armed with screwdrivers. You attack instantly and you give them hell, but also get stabbed multiple times yourelf and then have your family come down to first try and save your life and then watch you bleeding to death in front of them.
    Les Turpin wrote:THEY HAD A CHOICE TO WALK PAST, IF THEY DID NOT THEN THEY PAY THE CONSEQUENCES.
    Or...maybe you and your family do... No
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Les Turpin on Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:36 pm

    nope ....

    i have the absolute mindset that i will win. Richard Grannon calls it tenacious resolve others call it mushin ......

    anything else and i am allowing myself to die and not be able to defend my family.

    i do have a back up though

    Evil or Very Mad

    my wife is a faking animal
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    Disco Fingers

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Disco Fingers on Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:17 pm

    Les Turpin wrote:i have the absolute mindset that i will win.
    I find that admirable and a quality I have been trying to work on for myself over a long period of time When confronted in a real-world situation and avoidance/de-escalation/ballooning has not worked, and I decide it's time to go, I mentally have already won. The fight is over, the bad guy is sauce. However, whilst I kind of know that thinking positive will no doubt increase your chances, it still doesn't and cant guarantee anything.

    I want to ask you again....

    is it possible that you are risking everything, for electrical goods?
    Les Turpin wrote:i am allowing myself to die and not be able to defend my family.
    Again, I admire your stance here. In the cold wee hours of the morning, as I hear someone downstairs taking my family's things, those things we have worked hard for, I might be you. I might just go down there and try and wreak havoc on their sorry asses, despite my pontificating in this thread. But, it's sunny now, I'm in the office and I have no need to confront anyone. In this situation, the strategy that *seems* to give me and my family the best chances of living a long and happy life tohether, is one where I avoid killing or being killed, unless I have NO OTHER CHOICE.
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    D.Hughes
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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by D.Hughes on Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:22 pm

    pesonally, as i said before, i live in a flat, so if it does ever happen, its too close to even think about it. its just gotta be done.


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    Les Turpin

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Les Turpin on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:40 pm

    nope...

    i do hear you DF, honestly i do,

    but i will make a stand in my home no matter what they want.
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    Dave Stanswood

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Dave Stanswood on Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:55 pm

    I did detain one individual and in that process i got slashed just above my wedding tackle (thank god im average size Very Happy Very Happy )with a chisel i was wearing my homer simpson boxer shorts and nothing else. If his partners in crime did not scarper i would have been a dead man plain and simple. The term 'detain' should mean that they are unconcious and if they do wake up they are in so much pain they cannot move, anything less than that is simply to dangerous. I have a family where the majority are employed as policemen/women and i have debated this with them. They keep saying 'Dave you will get nicked' to which i reply 'only if its reported and only if you find the bodies' Very Happy Very Happy (joke).
    I have to agree with Lee M etc you have house insurance (hopefuly) its not worth dying/killing over a few electrical goods. If the intruders are not happy with that and insist on coming upstairs to extract money/jewllery etc then you have no choice but to meet them and put them down as quickly and as violently as humanly possible. Or the consequences could be worse.
    From my humble opinion i learnt a few things

    1. Make sure your home is properly secured
    2. Make sure the shed/garage is secured inc ladders/tools etc
    3. Have access to several items capable of blunt force trauma or slashing and stabbing
    4. Make sure you have clothing footwear to hand by your bedside
    5. Have access to more than one mobile
    6. Make sure your family know what to do and where to go
    7. Have the ability to defend/barricade the stairwell if your home has more than one floor (its very narrow easy to defend from, your higher and we have all seen the film 300)
    8. If you have no choice and have to engage do not defend attack like a madman making as much noise as possible and be as violent as possible
    9. Own a powerful torch and keep it close by

    Being smart is alot better than being brave in my book

    Respect as always
    Dave

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by cocktail on Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:18 pm

    I stumbled upon this thread and wanted to mention one thing for us in the states......
    3. Get down the stairs and make them go away...how dare they break into my f***ing house!!!
    If you do this type of thing over here, you will go to jail.....even though it is YOUR house and you felt threatened, you are considered a criminal now for Pre-meditated murder. You went looking for him type of thing. But I do recall reading about the old Castle Doctrine from years ago being brought up again in court systems and helping these Home Defenders from being looked at as criminals instead of self defense.

    Also, keep in mind that, at times, the burglar has much more advantage over you in your own home.
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    Joe Hubbard

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    Re: 4.20am....you wake up....

    Post by Joe Hubbard on Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:23 pm

    People often ask me what they should do if someone mugs them for their money/property. My advice is always give them what they want unless they want to then move you to an alternate location. Never allow them to take you to another location; right there fight like mad while you have the chance.

    The reality about Home Invasion is that you are already at that second location/crime scene. This is where you are reacting from the most absolute late phase and more than likely caught unaware and unprepared. Here is my advice:

    • Have weapons hidden all over your house, only easily accessible by you. Knives (small, med and large), small bats, leather saps, Billy Jacks, palm sticks, CO2 pellet guns, sling shots and cross bows are all good choices. Also keep a can of hairspray nearby with a butane lighter; nothing gets someones attention like a make shift flame thrower.
      • Have a safe room where your wife and kids can escape to sound the alarm bells

      • Have a rope ladder in the safe room, so escape is easier; teach your family how to escape using their bed linen and a pair of shoes if caught somewhere else in the house

      • You must instruct your family to leave you behind and for them to get out safely and get help as standard procedure in such incidents; if this is not sorted out in advance, when it happens it will not work! Emotionally they will not leave you, in turn the criminal will have the opportunity to victimize your family; a high percentage of this is sexual abuse.

      • Practice home invasion drills. So you dont frighten your kids, just tell them this is done in case there is a fire. When it happens proceed all the way with this fire back story. It will help to negate negative panic with your youngsters.
      • Keep a bug out bag in your safe room and in your car with enough essentials to survive.


    This is one of the most difficult scenarios to survive. Make sure you prepare somewhat in advance!

    Out

    Joe

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