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    Knuckle conditioning

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    Abnett

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    Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Abnett on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:02 pm

    How many of you do this? I'm just wondering if there is any way of telling what the optimum time for doing this conditioning is as obviously overdoing it can cause damage that will not help in the long run.

    How often and for how long do you guys do this conditioning? scratch

    Personally i only condition my knuckles now and again as i prefer open handed techniques and the conditioning consists mostly of reps of short range punches to solid objects of differing textures, i.e. wooden blocks, breeze blocks, bricks, and done for a duration that is bearable. I don't do it to the point my hands are bleeding as i don't see there being any benefit and it means training isn't as enjoyable when you can't move properly, but i'm open to suggestions.

    Any advice will be noted and tried. Thanks guys study

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Guest on Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:09 pm

    Hey ben

    I personally dont do it anymore, used to do it in kung fu using a Makiwara, or wall bags filled with various things. Now I just do hundreds if not thousands of reps on focus mits, or punch bag with bare knuckles. unless its an overly long session then may use bag gloves not full on 16Oz boxing gloves.

    Depending on how many reps you do, how often you train etc etc your knuckles get conditioned to the impact they are taking. you will find if its a hard session that your knuckles get bruised, skinned or cut anyway mine have, LOTS of times. takes time to heal which is a pain but once in a while for a hard session is good for me.

    Believe me, I have hit the roof tiles, boards, makiwara, wall bags etc etc. and I have had more pain from doing a good hard session on a hard bag, or decent focus mitts. as its not just a few strikes, but lots.

    Very Happy
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    bobspour

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by bobspour on Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:36 pm

    Used to do it in the 60's and early 70's...don't need it.Don't do it anymore!

    To be honest no one has given me a satisfactory reason for doing it deliberately.

    Guest
    Guest

    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Guest on Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:49 pm

    I remember when I first started.
    Not as long ago as some of the veterens on here, but mu instructors used to do it also. but could never give a good reason apart from

    " your bones will grow stronger through the rigourous testing you give them ". whichat the time all seemed well and good. but figured out soon, Roof tiles, Boards etc dont hit back ( as another wise man said in his movies ). so from then on stuck to the methods I said above. done my share of it and now enjoy what im doing without hitting wood, tiles, and everything else from a hardware store.

    cheers
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Les Turpin on Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:55 pm

    used to do it years ago...

    makiwara and press ups on knuckles, bit older and wiser now. the only conditioning my knuckles have now is if i fancy a heavy bag session without gloves on.

    but

    i do have pain in a few of them now so i guess i was a bit of an Ass Embarassed doing wood breaking and all that stuff was more a phsychological breakthrough to overcome
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    Dik

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Dik on Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:40 pm

    And you have to ask yourself - WHY?

    Are you a professional bare-knuckle fighter?
    Are you conditioning the rest of your body to that extent?
    Are you making a living out of punching?
    Are you putting yourself through that BS just because someone told you it was a good idea?
    Are you planning on punching hard objects on someones body?
    Is that person wearing some sort of armour that you wish to punch?

    What reason would you need calcified joints, arthritis and joint replacements in old age, in ability to carry out basic motor tasks like holding a pen, touching your loved ones etc.

    FFS -Why?

    Dik
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Les Turpin on Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:44 pm

    very valid points Dik

    the main reason i did it was because 10 years ago traditional karate was my life. i thought nothing of trying to emulate what the okinawan guys did.

    hitting stuff, forcing my fingers into buckets of pebbles and sand, stretching my legs so that i was crying just so i could get that jodan kick out. i would not reccomend it to anyone now. but on the flip side i kind of enjoyed it.

    i knew then and obviously now that i was not going to have to strike someone so hard as to get through there bamboo armour but it was something i wanted too do, the phsychological challenge was a massive acheivement for me to overcome,

    now i am paying for it in certain ways...

    but that could lead to a whole new thread.

    i look back at it now as extremities in my training that basically fuelled my massive ego and were unneccessary and borderline stupid and dangerous. something now that i have learnt from and overcome. goals were set and got too, that is something i would not change even if they were a bit misguided.

    thats why
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    Dik

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Dik on Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:41 pm

    Exactly mate

    I did stooopid things in the name of my ego too . (though not this - other stooopid things).

    I think good instructors these days should be better advising their students. I can give that advice from a position of many, many f-ups I've made.

    Controlling or killing the ego is a real great challenge. There are definately better goals we can set for our students that will test them and give them an inner self-belief that allows their egos to be beaten.

    That's one of the reasons I get in the suit. It changes people lives at a cellular level. They realise they can overcome anything, and that leaks into their day to day lives.

    Dik xx
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    Abnett

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Abnett on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:05 pm

    Maybe i should expand a bit more on the original question. My quandry was to whether it is really worth putting some serious conditioning in or not. As said before i prefer open handed technique and don't see much point in advancing the onset of arthritis and other problems associated with such conditioning. I've had many bruises and burns from using the heavy bag whilst bare knuckled. For me it's not pointless but is it really a necessity? Or is it all a really a matter of personal preference?
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:35 pm

    I'm not 100% certain that the conditioning is actually doing what it is intended to do anyway.

    I have a long Karate background which included the customary press-ups on knuckles, Makiwara boards, etc etc
    The old addage used to be, break your knuckles so that they grow back in one solid lump.
    I'm not Doctor, but I'm pretty certain it don't work like that.

    My knuckles are pretty bashed now - but alot of that was from hitting people for real and not from my training.
    And I certainly feel the negative side effects of the "conditioning" training as I'm getting older. I used to laugh at my grandparents when they would say "I can feel the cold weather in my bones" - now I know what they mean!

    Dik, I completely agree mate. You have to ask yourself what are you training for?

    Personally I hope I never have to hit anyone outside again - which means, I don't really care if I do break my hands so long as I knock the guy out at the same time.
    Sure, if the fight goes on for longer you may then be hindered by the damaged hand, but adrenalin will help counteract that a bit too.

    Slaps are great and is why I spend alot of time training them. Bob Spour is a great advocate of them for the personal damage limitation reason - amongst other reasons.

    But for me, As Les said, the only conditioning I do now comes for free with the rest of my training, hitting pads, hitting heavy bags, etc.

    Dik, I also like what you said
    That's one of the reasons I get in the suit. It changes people lives at a cellular level. They realise they can overcome anything, and that leaks into their day to day lives.

    For me - this is the most important part of my training and teaching. To be able to take something from your art and have that benefit you in completely different aspects of you life, and change you for the better, is the real reason we should be training in the first place. The ability to physically protect yourself is a by-product in my opinion.
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    Abnett

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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Abnett on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:44 pm

    Al Peasland wrote:To be able to take something from your art and have that benefit you in completely different aspects of you life, and change you for the better, is the real reason we should be training in the first place. The ability to physically protect yourself is a by-product in my opinion.

    Spot on there!! The main benefit i see is a big confidence boost and to control situations without resorting to violence.
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Knuckle conditioning

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:37 pm

    It's well documented that the mere fact of being fit and training (not necessarily in a martial art) can help remove you from the selection pool of a potential attacker.
    It changes the way you carry yourself, your posture, you general demeaner, and down to finer things such as the way you will naturally control your movement, being more smooth when you walk, change direction, etc.

    Add to that the fact that your physical training actually includes some stuff specifically designed to help you be aware of potential threat, and defend yourself physically should the need arise.

    And on top of that, make your training tough to enable you to gain better understanding of yourself and how you cope / react / act under stressful situations.

    And yet in further addition, put yourself through the mill a little to pressure test what you have, gain complete control of your inner self and your ego to allow you to be able to walk away when your ego says "lets fight"

    It all goes towards being able to lead a happy, peaceful, fulfilling life.

    Then, take all these skills and apply them to everything else you do - your work, your relationships, your ambitions, you hobbies

    Happy Days


    sunny

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