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    kaarl

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    dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:38 pm

    heres some excellent clips of Dennis Jones training and teaching and also some footage from his days on the door really sends home the chaos of the street fight

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIM-M8fG2No
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TYI3ClpP9c&feature=related

    "Leather punch bag (no foam liner). Bag density approx. 44 lbs per cubic foot. The bag weighs just over 90lbs. Punching the bag is equivalent to punching 90 lbs of granulated Silver Spoon sugar."

    on the first clip you can see a guy testing the bag and then heading for the gloves! i guess he didnt like it?
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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:37 pm

    serious power is clear study it closely,study his mechanics.Have a good look at the movement notice his circular movement, moving round the bag and coming in from different angles and at different distances, striking of either foot making every strike as hard as he possibly can, there is no fast one twos this isnít boxing! This is street fighting.
    To hit seriously hard you canít do it quickly, and there is no combinations itís all about single repeated hard shots
    When he hits twice with the same side there still individual shots as hard as possible,just repeated.

    He sees the bag as the enemy, you might only get one shot, and you have to make it count, so each shot has to be as hard as possible, with aggression and violence piled up behind the strike
    Iíve actually learned more from these clips and my discussion with Dennis about reality and street fighting, than I learned in the past 5 years training, and believe me that Say's a lot
    Study these clips; you will learn a lot
    Itís not just about the power, look at the movement

    not only is he hitting like a train but hes also training for the fight

    and Dennis, generally won fights very quickly

    moldeeside

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by moldeeside on Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 am

    The thing I love about Dennis is that he cuts it right down to the essentials, there comes a point in a situation when you have to think `I need to hit this person as hard as possible` then just choose the moment, preferably while they`re still talking.

    There are all manner of variables of course, but the nuts and bolts of it is that a good well chosen shot will usually do the trick. I`m not talking about taking on boxers or experienced martial artists, but against your average mouthy type who wants to attack you.

    The other thing I like is Dennis lovely calm manner and how he explains everything without showing dozens of intricate details.

    An all round good egg I reckon.

    cheers

    Mol
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:13 am

    Karl if you think you cant hit hard and fast you need to think again and start to train differently....Hard shots threw at speed can be achieved you just have to train hard as fuck and stop pussy footing around punchbags and start drilling at pace..
    Not you in particular karl ANYBODY WHO TRAINS FOR VIOLENT ATTACK!

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Guest on Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:28 pm

    Well said Pete

    Could not agree more mate. Mass X Velocity = Power.
    Basic physics. but pete is bang on with his statement, If you are saying you cannot hit hard and fast you have not trained with some of the guys I have mate. it can and is done on a regular basis.

    Train hard, train smart, or go home

    Craig

    moldeeside

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by moldeeside on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:02 pm

    I think Karl was trying to say you should put as much power as possible into every shot rather than trying to throw multiple punches which may cause you to hold back slightly.
    Once you`ve got the power into your shot you can speed up once drills become more familiar.

    I train with Karl and he certainly doesn`t hold back or waste time when he`s running a session, his power is very impressive and he can sustain attacks under pressure. I`m learning plenty with him and am definitely getting more speed and explosiveness each time I work with him.

    cheers

    Mol
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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:28 pm

    im right with you there mol

    hi peter,

    Karl if you think you cant hit hard and fast you need to think again

    Funny I donít remember saying that?,

    Hereís my take on it,

    Iíve never said I can hit hard, but that has always been my focus, one day maybe Iíll get to the point I feel comfortable with. For the street, if you canít hit you canít fight, simple as , always focus on power in training, speed comes with familiarity and repetition, lead with power finish with power,leave the jabs for the ring

    I totally agree that you can hit hard and fast, Iíve trained with quite a few people, and Iíve seen a lot of demonstrations of power striking, but to me Iíve only seen a few people that are simply at a different level of striking, a place that I would love to get to in the future

    Hard shots threw at speed can be achieved you just have to train hard as fuck and stop pussy footing around punchbags

    Hereís a clip of you on the punch bag

    http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

    Iím only being honest here and I know itís hard to tell but on this clip you are hitting fast, but to me it doesnít look like your striking is anywhere near the level of Dennis Jones,

    But with your experiences its clearly worked for you,thats what counts,

    from the few seminars that ive been to,and clips that ive seen, thereís only a few people that Iíve seen striking that really stand out when it comes to power generation/speed, none of them hit that fast, ok Steve Morris comes close but I think his power level and speed is light years ahead of most of us

    Dennis Jones, Steve Morris, and Carl Lewis all of which have had real experience and generally ending fights very quickly, and letís not forget Tyson,oh and my good mate martyn these are people who to me are at the top of my striking ladder so thatís what I look at, what can I take from them? whatís going to take me to that level? what are they doing that Iím not?

    heres a clip of steve morris,and to me definition of speed and power

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-G8GTo7hCo

    Iím looking forward to meeting you guys at the SD seminar, and Iíd love to hold the pads for you guys and be proved wrong, Iím always open to suggestions,and forever a student

    Cheers
    Karl


    Last edited by kaarl on Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : steve morris clip)
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:29 pm

    Karl i will be happy for you to hold the pads for me anytime...

    How many real fights have you had?

    what is your expearience?

    You are welcome to come for a free private session at my gym anytime then you can comment on whether my striking is hard or not.

    Please do not asume what my power levels are until then.

    I have watched many of your videos karl and i think you need to first adress your own training before you start to critique others over the internet without expeariencing training with them first hand.maybe when you come down for your session we can discuss it and i will try and help you.
    Be well and Stay positive.
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:32 pm

    ps. that clip is three years old and the bag work is at the end of a two and a half hour training session but still i think it those punches would rock your socks off .. Very Happy
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    D.Hughes
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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by D.Hughes on Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:40 pm

    to be fair to Pete, i have heard he hits like a f$(*^&£ freight train.
    and if you watch the bag closely, although his punches dont look much, you will notice they are much harder than they seem when you see the bag bend as he hits it.

    i have also trained with Kaarl, and can say, he does hit hard also imo.

    thing is though, you cant be slow on the street, especially not with pre-empts. if your opponent sees it coming, it is likely you will not knock him out, and it will degenerate into a brawl. which is NOT where we want it to go.
    you have to be able to hit fast and hard from wherever your hands happen to be.
    iid be willing to bet that Dennis Jones made the sacrifice of power for speed on occasions where he needed to, like pre-emptive situations, and i bet he still KO'd them.


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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Guest on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:31 pm

    This debate can go on for ages
    everyone has different opinions, mine is the same as pete. I know pete hits hard, as do most of the guys on here who train with each other. Al, Pete, Mick, Bob, Lee M. myself.

    we all have our ways to do things, we are all at different levels, and we all hit hard to some degree. Assuming pete does not hit hard because you see the end of a workout. If you have not trained with anyone from here it is hard to know what they can do, but im sure with all the expertise on here mate you will learn a lot more. and improve your striking some more.

    ps,
    try and stay on banlance mate when you throw your strikes, id like for myself to throw something with everything I have and still be in a position to follow up if needs be. not look like im falling off balance mate. just an observation.

    take care mate.
    see you at the seminar
    Craig
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:48 pm

    Quote "To hit seriously hard you canít do it quickly" sorry kaarl but this is where you appear to say it.. Ok now lets not let this thread get out of hand and keep to kaarls subject. I would also like to point out that the offer of training was the hand of friendship and nothing else, i reall would be hounored if you do come and train with me...
    Peace

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Guest on Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:51 pm

    hey kaarl

    take pete up on the offer mate, then you can see what kinda training he really does. will be worth ever second mate.

    take care
    craig
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    D.Hughes
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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by D.Hughes on Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:25 am

    ya know, this forum is different to the old forum. here you can take everything in kind.
    we are all here to help and learn from each other, and you can learn alot here from all these guys!
    i think its important to remember every fresh perspective is an opportunity to expand your knowledge.
    you wont be bashed here, we wont allow it. you will learn! as do we all, every time i log on here i learn something i didnt know before, and my eyes are always opened up a little bit more.
    remember, knowledge is power, so be a sponge!


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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:56 pm

    Rick wrote:ya know, this forum is different to the old forum. here you can take everything in kind.
    we are all here to help and learn from each other, and you can learn alot here from all these guys!
    i think its important to remember every fresh perspective is an opportunity to expand your knowledge.
    you wont be bashed here, we wont allow it. you will learn! as do we all, every time i log on here i learn something i didnt know before, and my eyes are always opened up a little bit more.
    remember, knowledge is power, so be a sponge!

    i totally agree mate,

    Hi peter,

    I certainly meant no offence,
    I decided a while ago that the only way forward to me was honesty sometimes a little too honest, and Iíve upset people before and itís purely my honest opinion. And if Iím wrong Iíll be the first to admit it, Iím all about moving forward and learning, and I also know with hard work you can develop massively in a few years.

    with an offer like that I think anybody who refused would be an idiot, I would be more than happy to come and visit, and I thank you for your kind offer, and like rick says when Iím there Iíll be in sponge mode

    I thought Iíd go into a little more detail about my opinion on the clips, and the reasons why,

    remember itís just my honest opinion, nothing personal

    I found when l looked at Dennisís clips and had a few good chats by adding what extra things he was doing it moved me forward leaps and bounds,with the addition of very heavy bag, I started to notice big similarities in movement with what Steve Morris was doing(but no were near the power) When I look at the Steve Morris clip, you notice that every strike is full bodyweight, he hits fast and seriously hard, to get your bodyweight into every strike takes a certain amount of time, with training and repetition the movement becomes reduced, internalising and speeding up the process, becoming faster and speed increases the power, heís been training for eons and has always been very powerful, pushing power development to a new level,


    Iím in no doubt that you can hit very hard, and even though youíre tired youíve still got good movement. When I compare your old clip with Dennis Jones/Steve Morris itís the head movement, hips and footwork that I look at, I see less head movement, less drive in the hips, and you tend to keep your feet in one place when repeating fast shots, reducing the transfer of bodyweight

    From the old clip how do you think you have improved? What do you find has changed in the way you move now three years on?

    Craig,

    When you talk about balance, Iíve notice something similar, and Iím working on it Very Happy

    itís all about being honest, and looking at any criticism or opinion regardless of who its off, take it in and look at in depth, Iím always disappointed when no one comments on clips, when you know weíve all got opinions, if youíve got any thoughts post them be honest and truthful, this forums not about arguing or calling names, itís about learning and moving forward, that doesnít happen when were all whispering to each other, and it doesnít happen when everyone agrees with everyone else,

    Iím only five years in with little experience, but I will always have an opinion and I will always be totally honest with the occasional rant

    cheers

    Dennis jones

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Dennis jones on Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:38 pm

    Hi

    ...We're all learning and I thinks it is important as Rick said '...to help and learn from each other...' Most people in our society are not interested in Martial arts and those that are, only a few show any real intrest in what I call Martial Arts. But it is a live and let live world...Karl is one of the few (jamie Clubb is another one) that has really questioned me about my training, fighting and door experience. I have always tried to answer honestly and I am the first to admit that I do not have 'The Answer'.

    Kind regards Dennis jones

    Ps I will do a short introduction

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Guest on Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:07 pm

    Hi Dennis

    Thanks for your post mate.
    I think as you pointed out, I have yet to come across anyone who has THE answer. we all train, teach and learn in different ways and from different people. It is our experiences that sets us apart from anyone who may or may not have trained one way or another, gained real life experience are not. Honesty within training and within our belief systems of what we do is what makes us unique and gives us the ability to question.

    If you are unsure, ASK, and 9 times out of 10 you will find someone willing to answer and throw another scenario into the pot.

    Learning is a continuous thing, and may we all keep learning from each other to better ourselves and the ones we love.

    craig
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    Peter Skillen

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Peter Skillen on Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:17 am

    I think kaarl that you may have jumped in w little without considering this may only be one style of hitting the bag. I think dennis would have hundreds of different drills on the bag not just the one shown here. I do that style of bag work the same but i also do many other different drills on the bag/peanutbag,heavy bag that clip shown is just part of a routine.
    As dennis jones says we are all still learning and i by no means think i am the best out there but i do trust my training and the tools i have.

    My art is in change not about violence or confilct although the tools are there if neede which i hope i never have to use again.
    There maybe a small article about is soon

    keep questioning keep training... hope we can meet soon and learn from eachother.
    Thanks kaarl.
    peace
    peter
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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:13 pm

    Hi peter,

    Like you said the differences between one persons idea of hard and another persons idea of seriously hard can differ significantly depending on who youíve trained with.ill leave any more till i had firsthand experience,preferably not on the chin or liver Shocked

    My thought were based on body movement rather than style, But I understand what you mean, there is lots of different styles and punch out drills etc, whenever i look at SD I'm always looking for power,i try to always focus on what i would be doing, seeing an aggressive attacker rather than a bag, building fitness through technique rather than the sport/fitness side of things, but i fully understand that fitness is a big part of it, I've also seen people unable to join a class, simply because there fitness levels are not good enough,i think SD should be available to all


    i do trust my training and the tools i have.

    i think that's a place everybody needs to get to when looking at self defence

    I'm looking forward to getting together,
    Thanks again for the kind offer Very Happy

    cheers,
    karl


    Last edited by kaarl on Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling!)
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    Luke Mannion

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Luke Mannion on Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:18 pm

    I like the fact that this thread didn't rapidly go down hill like it would of done in the other forum, in my opinion that forum has become the Jeremy Kyle show of self protection!

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:07 am

    Hey Luke

    I agree mate, this place was desinged and set up for constructive criticism, not bashing members, and everyone gets their say. if we cant discuss anything sensibly about self protection where is the point.

    Glad you like this place mate. keep posting.

    PS
    lol! at the Jeremy Kyle show comment. Classic bounce

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    Al Peasland
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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Al Peasland on Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:36 am

    I like the fact that this thread didn't rapidly go down hill like it would of done in the other forum, in my opinion that forum has become the Jeremy Kyle show of self protection!

    Couldn't have said it better myself Luke.

    It's what this forum is all about. We've got some great people on here now and thanks to Rick and Craig's sterling efforts, the forum is growing massively. We've even got a top MA Magazine on board now.

    From little seeds..........

    Keep up the great posts guys and gals

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by Dennis jones on Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:31 pm

    Hi

    I posted the following on another forum:

    In reference to the first fight (inside the nightclub) on 'Karate for the street' clip:

    'About a month ago [August 08] I found a video with it on. I then filmed it Ďoff the TVí with a camcorder using the stop start button as a form of old fashion editing. The incident was a lot longer and involved a gang of 5 or 6 men whose ages varied from 19 to about 25. At the start (still) the frame freezes on the beginning motion of the actual bottling that occurred during the incident. Itís not clear but in the right hand corner thereís a bottle in a manís hand.

    The first scene youíll notice a man standing in the doorway. On the floor (edited) a bouncer has got a man in a headlock. Cranked to one side and restricting the blood flow the bouncer is trying to choke him out. However, because he (the man) is extremely angry, very strong and high on Charlie itís taking a lot of effort to subdue him even with 3 bouncers on him! (He was and still is a very angry man even after recently doing five years for nearly killing someone with a rounders bat and a screw driver.) I was head doorman at this particular nightclub and on this occasion I was filming with a camcorder. I was filming off my shoulder (as always!) and not through the lens, so I was very aware of what was occurring around me.

    Anyway going back to the bloke by the door youíll see the film wobble. What happened there was, a moment after I filmed him his face changed and he drew his right foot back and went to boot the bouncer (that had his mate in a headlock) in the face. Spotting this I jumped across the bouncer and the Ďoffenderí and with my left hand launched the guy off the steps and then pulled the fire door shut. A moment later however, one of the gang smacks a doorman across the head with a bottle. (Thereís a bit of footage of a blooded bouncer.) The bottling was extremely quick. And with the sound of women screaming in the background, it went into a full on brawl and with a broken bottle being swung around in the mÍlťe. The beer bottle had broken on impact. Fortunately for the doorman the broken glass didnít take out his eye, which although rare is something that I have seen on a few occasions. The person responsible (brown hair) is quickly pinned to the floor. However, that was not the end of the incidentÖ

    What was of interest was the fact that Ďtheyí were all out of their faces on Charlie. They hated us with a vengeance and had a propensity for violence. The drug made them both strong and paranoid, which is as we all know not a good combination LOL.'

    The bag work is of me working on 'The one punch...' that Steve Morris talks about...

    I filmed the 'fights' 8 years ago (I have many others) and have decided to post them with the intention of showing martial arts students the 'chaos and dangers' involved in street fighting. I also wanted to 'explain' what sort of people they might come across! (See comments above).

    Regards Dennis

    Hi Al I enjoyed reading your comments about my MAI article...hope you do well with your book.
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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:38 pm

    The bag work is of me working on 'The one punch...' that Steve Morris talks about...

    heres a link to that article

    http://stevemorris.livejournal.com/?skip=40
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    kaarl

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    Re: dennis jones training clips

    Post by kaarl on Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:59 am

    Luke Mannion wrote:I like the fact that this thread didn't rapidly go down hill like it would of done in the other forum, in my opinion that forum has become the Jeremy Kyle show of self protection!

    i think it got to the point that people were afraid to ask any question,even newcomers were being attacked just for asking simple questions,a bit pathetic really when its suposed to be there to help Shocked

    a bit like the roughest pub in the area,you don't go in it unless you know someone Suspect

    hope all is well luke

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