Keysi Fighting Method

does anyone know anything about this method? there is nothing in my area or i would check it out, just wonderd if any of you guys have any experiance with it, and what your opinions are.
if not, does anyone wth access to a class fancy heading on down to watch/join a session and letting us all know what your thoughts are?

here is the site link: http://www.keysikfm.com/

for any of you guys interested, there is a FREE seminar in huddersfield on 14th september.

linkage: http://www.keysikfm.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=122

Not had any exposure to it personally but have spoken to a few people who have had a go and received a mixed responce. Some liked it, others could not get to grips with it. But all have said that it is very much a money train for the instructors,and students are expected to give 100% dedication to attending seminars, courses etc. It is very much frowned upon if you can attend seminars etc and affects your standing within the classes and organisation.

One of the main problems i find with anything written about KFM is that there is never a clear description of what they actually do. There is usually some deep and meaningful explaination that is not really clear and seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors. I suppose this is so people try it out for themselves.

i got that impression also mate. and iv never heard anything detailed about it either.

Good, glad it's not just me.
Closest explaination is that it is JKD mixed with Silat, which makes sense to a degree because i know that the Spanish fella (Justo?) and possibly even Andy Norman are Instructors under Dan Inosanto but they have always sid that it is more than these.

Just did a quick search on you tube and this was the first video.
Could have picked more but this was straight to hand.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNP4i195Of0

Comments?

hey guys,
i too have heard differing accounts re; KFM
i know that both Andy and Justo have both been trained by Guro Inosanto
and it looks a lot like some of the stuff i have trained in,
I personally think that it's their interpretation of all they have trained in
and fair play to them as it's being well received around the world.I have not personally met either Justo or Andy but Sid has trained along side both and assures me they are fine martial artists.I believe they got the Batman gig due to their connection to Buster Reeves in his capacity as a stuntman. Also maybe their lack of explaining "what" they do is a lot like trying to explain Kali to a layman..... I normally tell folk i do Muay Thai and then expand on that!Whatever your take on it,there is no denying the have marketed it very well and i think it would be more that adequate for the street.I've heard loads of bad stuff re;Seminar prices,Hierachy issues etc but then again you hear that all the time across the board...until i meet them i'll reserve judgement and i'll just wish them all the best and continued success....after all if you can spend any extended period of time with Guro and not pick up some of his for want of a better explaination"outlook on life"there has to be something wrong with you....hope this has helped!
mick x
ps i know that Rob Lock in stourbridge is the midland rep if anyone is interested locally

I don't know that much about it, but some of it stems from developing techniques from the body's natural response to an attack (covering your head). This guard, I believe they call the predator, is where you see a lot of elbow techniques thrown from on most of the videos and provides you with a strong defensive foundation.
It does seem very similar to kali and silat, but if they are affiliated to Guru Dan then that's hardly suprising.
As for the monetary aspect, I too have heard similar complaints about having to pay a lot of money on seminars and having to train twice a year in spain or you lose your instructorship, but, as Mick said, you do hear these kind of things quite alot, so I too will reserve judgement.
Hope this has helped some.
Maybe I'll check out that KFM seminar in September and give you all a report
Steve

In addition to being very capable martial artists and instructors, Justo, Andy and the core of the Keysi team are good business people and very, very good marketeers. In 2008, the latter will have far more to do with your success than the former. In a landscape swamped with the same old messages, Keysi broke out and found a very specific niche in terms of it's marketing and positioning. Full credit to them. Some of my students are former Keysi, and yes the feedback I have received is that the organisation is very money orientated. But then again, so is every successful business I have ever worked for.

If I were to level one criticism, it would be that perhaps more credit could be given to where they have come from. Guro Inosanto, and also Guro Bob Breen, have played a massive role in the development of both Justo and Andy. This seems to be overlooked in favour of the label that what they teach is a "unique concept", I just think credit where credit is due is always a more even approach.

MW

hear hear x

Crikey!
Mike's been allowed back on the forum

I first got interested in the Keysi Fighting Method after reading Andy Normans column in MAI. This was before Batman Begins, Mission Impossible 3 or The Dark Knight.
It was the way that they were covering themselves with their hands on their heads, what they call the Pensador (in Spanish) or the Thinking man (in English), that intrigued me. I hadn't seen anything like it before.
I am not a KFM Black Belt or Instructor so I'm not the most qualified person to say what the KFM is or isn't. I've heard all the rumours & all I can say is that I've heard the same things said about JKD by traditional martial artists.
I contacted my local instructor, tried it for myself & asked questions. It was only after meeting & training with these people that I based my opinions & not on what other people think, have been told or have heard.
My experience as a student has been that it has cost me no more to do the KFM than to do JKD or anything else that I've done in the past. I've been encouraged to attend seminars but no more than I was when I did JKD or to enter competitions when I was doing BJJ. There is obviously a greater commitment for people that are on the Instructor Development Program (IDP) but that is explained on the website.
For anyone that is interested locally to Coventry or Birmingham, my instructor is Rob Lock & can be contacted at www.roblocksacademy.com or www.keysikfm.com

Mike

i recently managed to view some footage of the kfm "home study" course, and i must admit, i was less than impressed with what i saw. not so much the techniques themselves, but the teaching. no explanations, no verbal discussion whatsoever. just video of the technique, shown both fast, and slow motion, and how to drill it. all covered by music. very poor instruction in my opinion.

if thats how keysi represents themselves at the highest level, then im thoroughly unconvinced and disappointed, and wont be taking up keysi any time soon, number one reason being, after seeing that method of instruction, its not something i can put my faith in.

Hi Rick,

Sorry to hear that you were not impressed.
On the website there are a lot of promo videos for the home study course & your right theres no talking just music.
I'm not sure how much of the course you've seen but the videos that I recieve as a member of the KFM (which is one a week going right from the beginning through the student syllabus to black belt level) are proper video lessons with the option of both English & Spanish explanations. If thats what you've seen then fair enough.
The KFM seems to be going the internet route rather than say producing books & dvds so the videos can only get better. I personally don't think any book, dvd or internet video lesson is better than a real live instructor. My instructor definitely does talk..but we do train to music
The free seminar in September that you mentioned was a great opportunity for people to see first hand in person.

no mate, i didnt see anything with vocal explanation in it.
i may one day see someone practicing it (perhaps you can show me some on the SD seminar?) and be impressed, but tbh, the way they cary themselves in what iv seen so far by way of instructional material puts me off greatly.
perhaps from my point of view, the art itself may be sound, but they run it a bit like a mcdojo, which instantly puts me off.
i agree, training for real is always gonna be 100% better than video, but imo, the videos are supposed to at least give an idea of what its about, and some explanation as to why etc, because this is the way the art is generally represented at the moment.
i didnt expect to master it, i simply expected to get a good idea of the principles and reasons behind the techniques etc. and i didnt.

In fairness to the KFM guys, I’ve seen the videos you are referring to, and they are just demos. It’s a teaser, a well produced snapshot to spike people’s interest, in the same vein as a movie trailer. As I said in my post above, I think they understand marketing very well.

I have similar videos on my website, and they aren’t designed to be instructional, just a shop window for people to browse and see if they like the look. You can tell a great deal by watching someone move. I agree that it doesn’t offer you an indication of how good someone is as an instructor, but I agree with Michael that to achieve that you need to turn up and find out for yourself. To their credit, they do back up their videos with an offer of free seminars; I think that’s pretty good.

Demo videos just help someone who is browsing for arts or schools to get a feel, and therefore narrow down their list of choices. I think that serves a worthwhile purpose.

actually, i believe i owe the keysi guys apologies.
it seems i have been skipping through a DLP course (which i am now told stands for distance learning PROMO)
i will check out a PROPER video when i get chance and come back here with my opinions.

once again, apologies for my previous reviews, they were wrong.

No need to apologise Rick.
After seeing the videos you might still genuinely not be impressed & thats ok, its not possible to please everyone.
I think your going to be busy for a while organising this seminar!
Good luck

Mike

i have trained in it a bit as my ju jitsu teacher incorperated it into his style.
the founders are both trained under bob breen but will not admit or except that it has anything to do with kali silat thaiboxing or jkd even though its very obvious that it is heavily based on these arts.

the main thing about the art is that you keep a very high guard with your hands on your forhead and move this guard around to block strike. some of the good points is theres alot of fighting multiple oponents and from getting knocked down but i wouldnt take the time to learn it due to all the marketing ect if thay just said this is our version of jkd i would have alot more respect for it rather then claiming its some secret gypsy martial art.

They dont claim its a secret gypsy martial art. Just that Justo, who was a gypsy, learnt more about REAL fighting from actually fighting on the streets than from training in any of the martial arts that you've listed.
Ive met both Andy Norman & Justo who talked quite openly about what the KFM was & wasnt, what training they have done in the past & who they have trained with.
Andy talks about his background in the martial arts & training with Bob Breen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dyH6Kv2j8k

P.S In this months MAI magazine (May 2009), KFM Top Team instructor Tony Davis mentions Bob Breen visiting Andy & Justo in Spain while on holiday.