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    Links to katas in mma?

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    kaarl

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    Links to katas in mma?

    Post by kaarl on Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:45 pm

    Hi guys,

    after a discussion over on my forum I thought id post a question here, pdb posted a few clips mentioning how Neil Grove used Goju's basic kata to beat James Thompson heres a clip of the fight




    and heres a clip of the kata



    very nice job by Mr Grove,

    When I look at the two clips I struggle to see a link between the two, like black and white or colour, with the fight there are no set routines but the kata is a set routine, how do you feel a kata would help you prepare for an mma fight? and how did Neil Grove use the kata to beat James Thompson?

    Cheers,
    karl
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:29 am

    I'm a massive fan of Kata - having a long Shotokan background

    Haven't read or watched any interviews where Mr Grove references the use of Kata to win this fight so not sure of the background for this thread.

    I must admit, I am struggling to see Kata-esk techniques in this fight - looks like some big haymakers to me.

    Perhaps a bit of footwork - but that could be from regular training/sparring rather than Kata specifically.

    If anything - I would suggest Kata teaches attributes more than just technique.
    Your Kiai points - teaching you how to switch emotive aggression on and off like a tap - at will rather than having to have external forces fire it up.
    Focus and Kimae to deliver more explosive punches
    etc etc

    Perhaps more of these attributes can be found in the clip than any classic kata technique??


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    kaarl

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by kaarl on Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:17 pm

    good points Al,

    never thought of it like that
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    Jamie Clubb

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Jamie Clubb on Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:52 pm

    Perhaps you could direct this question to Iain Abernethy's forum or ask Gavin Mullholland who posts on here from time to time.
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    Les Turpin

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Les Turpin on Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:20 pm

    like Al i am a huge fan of kata because of my 'roots' ...

    there was not a lot of technical stuff in there that i could see, but , when the shit hits the fan and the punches are landing hey , who cares !!!

    the mindset that can be learnt during kata has always been a big help to me. i mean, when i did a kata with full speed , force, killing mind, focus, it was not technically great but i actually was exuasted and felt like i had beat up multiple opponents to a point where it was difficult to 'come down' from the experience.

    remember we could make a kata out of 'walking from our house and being attacked as we went to get into a car' its not traditional in the oriental sense but it is relivent in todays society.

    if it teaches you transition between techniques and the mindset to destroy an opponent then i cant be bad eh?
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:02 pm

    when i did a kata with full speed , force, killing mind, focus, it was not technically great but i actually was exuasted

    I know exactly what you mean

    I was always taught that, regardless of your fitness, you should be totally out of breath at the end of one Kata if done with your maximum speed, power and mindset

    Good point though - Iain Abernethey would be the best guy I can think of to ask on this point.

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    Gapster

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Gapster on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:59 pm

    Hi all, bit of a sad first post but hey...

    Gavin is the man to ask specifically on this one as 'Big Neil' is one of his students.

    As has been mentioned above, the basic kata is about 'principles' as are all the fundamental kata - depending on who's teaching them - and in this case it's all about the 'attack and smash' mindset, no more, no less.

    If you were to read Gavin's Four Shades of Black it would give an insight into his way of using kata as building blocks, and I'm sure when he comes down off his 'high' from a weekend summercamp he'll be delighted to give a more comprehensive answer.

    sekibugei

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by sekibugei on Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:40 pm

    Personally cannot see it in the clip but I have very little knowledge of this style of karate, I have a strong shotokan background and still enjoy studying and performing the katas, since going over to jujitsu a few years ago, revisiting my shotokan katas reveals a few hidden gem which unfortunately my old club never taught or indeed knew.

    Gavin Mulholland

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Gavin Mulholland on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:11 pm

    It is difficult to get across on a forum but Neil is referring to the mindset of the kata, not its specific bunkai.

    Gekisai Dai Ichi translates as 'Attack and Smash Number One' (the clip shown is a different kata by the way), and that was what we worked in the run up to the fight.

    Neil had done two fights on minor shows prior to the Thompson fight. We got called up on Thursday evening to fight James Thompson that Saturday evening at Wembley Arena - it was terrifying!

    Neil was not fit enough for a three round fight, or probably even a one rounder given such short notice, so we had no time for any strategy other than Gekisai Dai Ichi. If Neil was to win that fight his one chance was simply to charge James, attack, and smash him. What he smashed him with was irrelevant, we just knew that he had a very short period of time to put him away.

    That was what Neil was briefed to do, and that's what he did.

    It was all mindset and in Goju, that mindset is trained in the first kata, Gekisai Dai Ichi.
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    kaarl

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by kaarl on Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:30 pm

    thanks Gavin,

    very nice job he did to

    i understand were your coming from,thanks for the answer

    cheers
    karl

    Gavin Mulholland

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    Re: Links to katas in mma?

    Post by Gavin Mulholland on Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:46 pm

    No problem Karl.

    I would also add that a kata is only a set routine in the same way a DVD is.

    Just performing the 'set routine' is the equivilant of just watching the DVD. You may get something out of it but to get it's true value you need to get out, get a training partner, and start working on the ethos, messages, and techniques shown in the kata/DVD.

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