For Everything Self Defence


    Chain punching

    Share

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:52 am

    I'm interested in the forums opinion on this.

    Do you think it is practical for real world self defence ?
    avatar
    kaarl

    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2008-06-29
    Age : 46
    Location : n/wales

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by kaarl on Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:11 am

    depends what you mean by "chain punching" are you talking about something like this



    i think when your looking for something practical and effective,this is not the way to go i think the faster you repeat the shot the weaker the strike becomes and the less chance you have of landing it,standing in one place throwing that many shots just seem very impractical,
    if you look at the ufc for example chain punching is allowed ive never seen this form used,because its really hard to pull off and people move when your trying to hit them,in reality how often do you see them string together more than 2 or three strikes,when i have seen chain striking its in a different form not so static with more focus on power and using body weight and movement like this but you very rarely see it



    again because its really hard to pull off,i think Peter Consterdine sums it up nicely

    How you do a combination in the street is to simply be opportunistic. What I mean by that is that whilst you have a sequence of techniques in mind you simply treat the combination as three separate techniques and not as a combination. In other words you hit and pause to see what presents itself, you hit again and see what is presented and you may then hit again and see what else is presented.

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:31 am

    Thank you very much for replying.

    From the second video I'm thinking that if you can get your attacker moving backwards and maintain the attack it can work, but..

    You find yourself in the position of having to chase him which might not be ideal, especially if you can't be sure if he has mates ready to join in.
    avatar
    Al Peasland
    Admin

    Posts : 1051
    Join date : 2008-06-15
    Location : Northampton

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:46 am

    Nice clips Karl

    Kevin - in response to your last comment, it's a very valid point.

    Legally we'd have to be careful that if we have the person running backwards and we're chasing, then some could argu the threat has gone as it's running backwards away from you - so to continue your attack may no longer be seen as self defence.

    However, I would treat it as follows:-

    There is a difference between chasing someone down and moving forwards in your attack.
    By this I mean, if I've made the decision that I have to get physical and hit the person, then my next action may be one good clean knock-out shot, or it could be several shots if each one failed to finish the job completely.
    To me, as Peter Consterdine says, the best attacks are going to be single shots aimed at finishing the fight - the only reason you would throw further shots is if the one before "failed" for some reason. In that case, the next shot will be selected based on the new relative positions of you and your opponent and the targets now available. To simply chain punches could result in you chaining all of them into a defended or covered area of your assailant.

    Target wasn't mentioned in the first clip - but that is not to say that it hasn't been considered so we shouldn't rule it out based on that one clip alone.

    I certainly wouldn't want to stop a barage of shots like those in the first clip, however, I still feel, for self defence, your shots should be more individual and each and every one with the intent of finishing the fight, NOT to simply set up for the next shot.

    Hope this makes sense - it is a little early Laughing
    avatar
    Michael W Wright

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2008-08-04
    Location : Glasgow/London

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Michael W Wright on Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:50 pm

    Three things to say on the Chain Punch or "Straight Blast" in terms of practical self protection:

    1. It is very badly taught, and therefore poorly misrepresented, mostly by people who have watched a few Vunak vids

    2. Completely agree with Al, if the first shot fails, you are already in damage limitation. But that's what a blast can be.

    3. In that vein, I consider the Chain Punch to be an excellent "OH SHIT" technique. You're scared and out of ideas, run and blast and get the flock out. You're facing more than one and you need space and an exit route, its a sound option. Finally, from personal experience, you are in adrenal surge and your body won't understand anything else, just run, hit, and hope.

    Its not perfect self defence, but I have been very grateful to have it in my arsenal.
    avatar
    Peter Skillen

    Posts : 612
    Join date : 2008-06-16
    Location : Loughborough

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Peter Skillen on Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:34 am

    I think that any strike should be followed up with a second third and even fourth regardless of the situation you are in. If shit and fan meet I for one will not be relying on just one shot. I'l deal with the law after I am safe from harm. The one thign i do suggest is movement between shots in multiple directions going forward.
    I have a few new videos goin up this week on my site and i address exactly this in one of them. These are taken from the fourth coming dvd Street Tuff(c) a begginers guide to self defence.(tm)

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:08 am

    Thank you everyone for all the replies, plenty to think about.

    Al - As far as I understand it, traditionally the target is the chin, the intention being that with each shot the brain is taking more shock, K.O. on the installment plan if you will. I could be wrong on this but that is my understanding.

    So you raise a good point that after the first shot (or two) will someone naturally cover up the target ? but perhaps not if he's on the backward move, perhaps he'd anticipate falling ? I'm curious to the natural human reaction to such an 'attack'

    Michael - So you think it can work ? You seem very familiar with the technique, am I correct about the target being the chin ?

    Peter - I'd like to see your videos, do I have to subscribe to your site ?, could you provide a link to your site please ?
    avatar
    Al Peasland
    Admin

    Posts : 1051
    Join date : 2008-06-15
    Location : Northampton

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Al Peasland on Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:53 am

    Hi Kevin

    For me, the primary target is always the chin as that has served me best in giving me the best chance of a one punch KO.
    It's not guaranteed, but nothing ever is, especially in fighting!
    There are plenty of other targets though but for me, personally, they are always a second option when I'm not able to access the chin, either because they are covering up or I simply cannot reach it Laughing

    Peter Consterdine always targets the chest, sternom with his double hip strikes, but he admits, he's always struggled to target the chin when the fight is on and adrenalin is in full flow, so he hits the body - but trust me, his power means it wouldn't matter where he hit you - your ancestors would probably still feel it. Very Happy
    avatar
    Dave Stanswood

    Posts : 82
    Join date : 2008-06-16
    Age : 46
    Location : Portsmouth

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Dave Stanswood on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:45 am

    I come from a wing chun background so i have been quite intimate with chain punching and forgive me for saying but it does have a few flaws. As its been pointed out chain punching solely relies on the combination of attacks to dismantle Mr Nasty with each shot being limited in power. With every demo i see people try to impress with there hand speed giving the impression of power but it is empty. the problem for me is lack of penetrating footwork when these shots are delivered. This creates a series of pushes not punches. I have always taught to chain punch and step with a maximum of 3 punches per step. The first punch starts the step the 2nd mid step the 3rd when the body weight has moved completely. From my opinion its the lack of footwork which reduces the impact and secondly people will lean head first into the shot to give it extra umph. This makes them top heavy and brings there head closer to Mr Nasty and his weapons of mass relaxation. Even when i train the first shot from the fence ala Mr T and Mr Al P i do bring my hip into it this does improve power but also in my mind i am stepping as well just in case i have to follow or continue hitting. You have to think of moving with your attack because you can never tell which direction Mr Nasty will travel in.
    The good thing chain punching teaches you is forward pressure but when its applied to someone who is educated in the ancient ways of making you go baba nun nights you can and probably will have a little snooze yourself.
    Anywho i have this darn work thing to go and do now.

    Dave
    avatar
    Michael W Wright

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2008-08-04
    Location : Glasgow/London

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Michael W Wright on Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:08 pm

    Kevin K wrote:

    Michael - So you think it can work ? You seem very familiar with the technique, am I correct about the target being the chin ?

    Further to Daves point, I do think the Wing Chun approach is fundamentally flawed. When I moved from Wing Chun into JKD, and was shown how to blast with real pressure, power, and intent - things improved dramatically.

    The goal of the blast is not really KO, so the chin is not necessarily the target area. I was always taught the bridge of the nose, right in the centre of the face, and to go for pure attrition. Again, I agree with Al, my first option would always be KO in the most simple, direct manner possible. However, at the risk of repeating my other post, whereas the blast is not a primary option it is still one I am grateful to have.

    I do believe in it. I have personally used it once when things werent going well, and it got me out of the situation by overwhelming my opponent and giving me space to escape. One of my students and best friends Neil was run off the road in Oldham by two guys in a road rage attack. They got out of the car, Neil got out of the car because his wife and kids were in the back. To make sure he put as much distance between these guys and his family he just charged at the first guy and blasted him into oblivion. The second guy saw this and ran off, leaving his mate on the floor at the side of the road. Neil and family got home safe.

    In fairness, Neil is a 6ft 3 sixteen stone bouncer and Judo black belt (talk about running the wrong guy off the road) so maybe it was his weight, strength and momentum that took care of things. That said, techniques are just the vehicle for our attributes, and it worked very well for him. In addition - Paul Vunak, Tom Cruse, Rick Young, Joe Hubbard, Mike Brewer and numerous other friends in PFS have used the blast to great effect in their time on the doors and in the bars. These men made it work because they owned it, adapted, it and functionalised it - the key to making anything we do work.

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:54 pm

    Michael W Wright wrote:
    Kevin K wrote:

    Michael - So you think it can work ? You seem very familiar with the technique, am I correct about the target being the chin ?

    Further to Daves point, I do think the Wing Chun approach is fundamentally flawed. When I moved from Wing Chun into JKD, and was shown how to blast with real pressure, power, and intent - things improved dramatically.

    The goal of the blast is not really KO, so the chin is not necessarily the target area. I was always taught the bridge of the nose, right in the centre of the face, and to go for pure attrition. Again, I agree with Al, my first option would always be KO in the most simple, direct manner possible. However, at the risk of repeating my other post, whereas the blast is not a primary option it is still one I am grateful to have.

    I do believe in it. I have personally used it once when things werent going well, and it got me out of the situation by overwhelming my opponent and giving me space to escape. One of my students and best friends Neil was run off the road in Oldham by two guys in a road rage attack. They got out of the car, Neil got out of the car because his wife and kids were in the back. To make sure he put as much distance between these guys and his family he just charged at the first guy and blasted him into oblivion. The second guy saw this and ran off, leaving his mate on the floor at the side of the road. Neil and family got home safe.

    In fairness, Neil is a 6ft 3 sixteen stone bouncer and Judo black belt (talk about running the wrong guy off the road) so maybe it was his weight, strength and momentum that took care of things. That said, techniques are just the vehicle for our attributes, and it worked very well for him. In addition - Paul Vunak, Tom Cruse, Rick Young, Joe Hubbard, Mike Brewer and numerous other friends in PFS have used the blast to great effect in their time on the doors and in the bars. These men made it work because they owned it, adapted, it and functionalised it - the key to making anything we do work.

    Thanks Michael, can I ask ?, what footwork would you use ?, would you use the 'replacement step' thing (sorry, I don't know the proper name) that JKD people do ?

    Or would you more or less just run at them ?

    Or perhaps it would all depend on how things unfold.
    avatar
    Les Turpin

    Posts : 282
    Join date : 2008-06-24
    Age : 50
    Location : aveley

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Les Turpin on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:30 pm

    the chain of punches or "straight blast" is what it is, i stream of punches at the head area, none of them will land effectivlty to cause a KO, what they will do is turn the predetor/prey mentallity in your favor.

    it will allow you to open up areas/ targets for further attacks within a second or two. any slower than that then your allowing the opponent to think and retaliate. if you use it ( and it is a valuable tool) you should be able to give yourself a window for a finishing blow or blows.
    avatar
    Peter Skillen

    Posts : 612
    Join date : 2008-06-16
    Location : Loughborough

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Peter Skillen on Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:42 pm

    kev k. www.warrior.moonfruit.com is my site. Antwhere between the earn and centre chin is a good knock out spot practice hitting that area from many varied angles with the big knuckle contacting.
    avatar
    Michael W Wright

    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2008-08-04
    Location : Glasgow/London

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Michael W Wright on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:56 pm

    Kevin,

    I'd call the footwork more of a determined and aggressive stride, as opposed to a run. When you see people running 50 yards across the room throwing 200 punches, again that's bad teaching of the technique. When you run at a compliant training partner in a pretend drill, of course he is going to run backwards for you. When you put protective equipment on and work with a fully resisting opponent you get far more genuine reactions.

    You'll get one to two seconds of forward pressure and momentum from punching in a determined stride before your opponent will generally do one of three things:

    1. Turn his back
    2. Put his hands on his head and try to shield the blows
    3. Duck down and try to grab you

    In all three cases you need to stop punching, or you'll end up hitting the back of his head, his elbows, or fresh air. At that stage, as Les says, you borrow the momentum to go to your finishing shots. Or, as in my case, when my opponent turned his back I just grabbed him and rammed him into his mate, and ran like hell.

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:10 am

    Thank you everyone for your replies, great stuff. thumbsup

    The conclusion I arrive at is.. that it can work when performed correctly in certain circumstances but it is not typically going to secure an end to the fight on it's own. Going for a one shot K.O. where possible probably being more ideal.

    Michael W Wright - I had considered all but the third reaction on your list, that never occured to me at all, would this neccessarily make grappling a necessity or do you think it would still be possible to use striking to get out ? do you think a hook to the temple would be possible ? but then I suppose it all depends on how he happens to grab.

    Peter Skillen - Thank you for the link, Is the site under development ?, the gallery and video section didn't work for me, might be my setup though.
    avatar
    Peter Skillen

    Posts : 612
    Join date : 2008-06-16
    Location : Loughborough

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:24 am

    still a work in progress video coming soon.

    Kevin K

    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2009-08-05

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Kevin K on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:32 am

    Peter Skillen wrote:still a work in progress video coming soon.

    Thanks again Peter, look forward to seeing the vids. thumbsup
    avatar
    kaarl

    Posts : 192
    Join date : 2008-06-29
    Age : 46
    Location : n/wales

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by kaarl on Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:32 pm

    Im looking forward to seeing the clips as well should be really interesting thumbsup
    heres a little something to keep you going for now Band





    sorry just couldnt resist
    avatar
    Peter Skillen

    Posts : 612
    Join date : 2008-06-16
    Location : Loughborough

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Peter Skillen on Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:39 pm

    hahaha i knew someone was gonna pull that up ..It just had to be you Kaarl... lol!

    Sponsored content

    Re: Chain punching

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:04 pm