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    notsogruesome

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    least lethal self defense method

    Post by notsogruesome on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:15 pm

    What do you think is the least lethal form of self defense?
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    karma

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by karma on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:04 pm

    Best way to avoid punch ,no be there
    Mr Miyagi - The karate kid thumbsup


    Last edited by karma on Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

    Dave Turton

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Dave Turton on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:49 pm

    was that question for real?

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:07 pm

    Erm it appears so dave

    Notsogruesome,
    Before posting questions mate,

    Can you please do an intro in the introductions section. letting us know a little bit about yourself, your name, background, etc etc.

    Look forward to your intro and posts

    Welcome, and thanks

    Craig
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Al Peasland on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:20 pm

    Best self protection skill to teach anyone - Awareness ;-)

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Guest on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:59 pm

    The Art Of fighting Without Fighting. afro

    Craig
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    keith

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by keith on Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:43 am

    scratch Run away

    Dave Turton

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Dave Turton on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:15 am

    I just cant connect the word 'lethal' .. ALL self-defence should in theory be 'NON lethal' so how can youhave 'least lethal'???
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    Steve Rowe

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Steve Rowe on Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:42 pm

    notsogruesome wrote:What do you think is the least lethal form of self defense?

    Give in? bounce
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    drgndrew

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by drgndrew on Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:19 pm

    Dave Turton wrote:I just cant connect the word 'lethal' .. ALL self-defence should in theory be 'NON lethal' so how can youhave 'least lethal'???

    kind of like only being a little bit pregnant Cloud 9
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    drgndrew

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by drgndrew on Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:44 pm

    lets assume it's a genuine question and to be honest it is a question that the everyday person might ask.

    the least "lethal" would be avoidance, then deescalation and diffusing.

    If we're talking physical then first would be Defence only , but that can soon end up lethal for you. Next would be control and restraint, after that there is increasing risk of lethal outcome, it is a possibility whenever violence is met with a physical counter. you could hold the choke a little too long, or he may just not be able to handle the pressure or have an existing condition. He can hit his head on the way down or bounce it of the concrete, in Australia at the moment with have a awareness campaign "one punch can kill"

    You should never be thinking in terms of Lethal moves etc the objective of self defence and self protection is to survive, to stop the attacker not to kill him. In OZ we must use "Reasonable force" in self defence. so my answer is this

    Use awareness and avoidance to avoid violence if at all possible, If thats not possible then use proven and effective deescalation skills and tactics to prevent an aggressive person going physically violent (put your ego in a suitcase), if it has to go physical then use reasonable force to stop the attacker as quickly as possible with the idea of ending the situation with the least amount of net-violence occurring. (net-violence = the violence delivered to you + the violence you deliver to them)

    Reasonable force involves knowing when a strike to the throat is appropriate or whether a restraining technique is more suitable, training enables us to be able to recognise the difference and to act accordingly.

    Dave Turton

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Dave Turton on Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:19 pm

    If we do have to go into actual physical 'least lethal' stuff, then the defensive pushaway is best, then the elbow scoop and shutdown

    notsogruesome

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by notsogruesome on Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:16 am

    karma wrote:Best way to avoid punch ,no be there
    Mr Miyagi - The karate kid thumbsup

    I don't get 'no be there' sorry. :-(

    notsogruesome

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by notsogruesome on Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:20 am

    drgndrew wrote:lets assume it's a genuine question and to be honest it is a question that the everyday person might ask.

    the least "lethal" would be avoidance, then deescalation and diffusing.

    If we're talking physical then first would be Defence only , but that can soon end up lethal for you. Next would be control and restraint, after that there is increasing risk of lethal outcome, it is a possibility whenever violence is met with a physical counter. you could hold the choke a little too long, or he may just not be able to handle the pressure or have an existing condition. He can hit his head on the way down or bounce it of the concrete, in Australia at the moment with have a awareness campaign "one punch can kill"

    You should never be thinking in terms of Lethal moves etc the objective of self defence and self protection is to survive, to stop the attacker not to kill him. In OZ we must use "Reasonable force" in self defence. so my answer is this

    Use awareness and avoidance to avoid violence if at all possible, If thats not possible then use proven and effective deescalation skills and tactics to prevent an aggressive person going physically violent (put your ego in a suitcase), if it has to go physical then use reasonable force to stop the attacker as quickly as possible with the idea of ending the situation with the least amount of net-violence occurring. (net-violence = the violence delivered to you + the violence you deliver to them)

    Reasonable force involves knowing when a strike to the throat is appropriate or whether a restraining technique is more suitable, training enables us to be able to recognise the difference and to act accordingly.

    Wow! Thank you for this very informative response. So many lessons for many to learn. 'Reasonable force' seems to be so hard to muster though.
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    maija

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by maija on Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:35 am

    Ah ...there's the rub is it not?
    "Reasonable force".
    How to act appropriately at the appropriate time in an imagined situation that may or may not happen .....?
    The variables are infinite and the parameters unclear.
    In the state of Arizona you can legally carry a side arm. If someone attacks you and, say, you wave around the gun which makes them run away. Is that non-lethal enough? (They say Arizona is a very 'polite' place to live but I have not seen the statistics to see if this is true.)
    What about merely shoving someone away harder than you thought you were going to because you'd never done it before, who then hits their head on something and is badly injured or dies?
    IMHO I think it is worth understanding yourself and what you are in fact capable of. I would prefer to know a little more about myself in a training environment than to have zero idea what will happen when push comes to shove.
    I am very interested to hear from the guys that do this for a living and have experienced the chaos of 'real' situations what they think.
    My suspicion is that you will never really KNOW until you are in it for real, but that it is wise to explore as fully as possible, not just body mechanics and technical stuff, but what The Dog Brothers call 'the adrenal state', especially in conjunction with random and chaotic motion during training. Also of course, awareness, de-escalation and perceiving threat.
    One's mind, intent and focus seem to me to be just as important to look at as the physical side of things.
    Any thoughts gents?
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    Al Peasland
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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Al Peasland on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:16 am

    Attitude is everything and something that everyone can develop regardless of physical ability.

    By attitude - I mean the right attitude for the situation. When it gets physical, the attitude that you are going to win, that you are going to take control of the situation. The winner's mindset!

    What's great is that same level of attitude and focus and intent can be applied to say... avoiding trouble, staying aware and alert - even... an attitude and an intention to lead a happy and successful life!

    Letting nothing get in your way of being a good, decent person. Let nothing stand in your way of realising your goals and ambitions. Let nothing have the power over you to stress you, depress you or get you down.

    Wink
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    drgndrew

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by drgndrew on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:52 am

    Agreed

    The BEP of violence - Behavioural Emotional And Psychological aspect of violence - has the greatest impact on self-protection and people, well above that of the actual physical action.

    BEP is the main difference between each situation, between each victim and between each attacker.
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    Mick Tully
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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Mick Tully on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:43 pm

    great replies guys
    as you all know i am known to be quite positive in my outlook towards training and life in general,and attitude is everything so as karl so insightfully said earlier "just don't be there"....in CQP marcus wynne states that if you have to pull your gun the first thought that should come to you is "how did i fuck up so bad that i have got to this point"!I think the same can be applied to basically all confrontations...if you are aware enough nothing comes as a surprise...we see the situation escalate and then make the decision on how to act...we are all big boys and girls here so common sense should get us out of any situation....after all nice people have never started on me...so therefore i only associate with nice people...and when i don't....then i just walk away!
    non lethal?
    shouldn't everything in life we do be non lethal?
    not enough love in the world guys...lets help affect change!
    mick x

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Guest on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:48 pm

    Amen to that Mick
    Nice posts all, and to be fair not a lot I can add to this.
    but all quality advice as usual.

    Craig
    x
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    karma

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by karma on Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:51 pm

    Others have already said it way better than I can .But if you are switched on, using what ever methods you choose to employ.( Coopers colour codes, The ooda loop or just street smarts.) You should be able to spot a dodgy situation.If you really don't want to get physically hands on then your only choice is to get the hell out of there.
    As Al pointed out attitude ( in this case confidence )plays a real big part combine this with awareness and you soon present yourself as a hard target.
    So I guess the most "non lethal form of self defence" would be having a good pair of Adidas compwhack
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    Mick Tully
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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Mick Tully on Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:49 pm

    I roll old skool
    adidas samba all the way......bit terrace legends i know but still quality kicks x
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    karma

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by karma on Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:59 am

    Now you're cooking Mickster I agree

    Mark Richardson

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Mark Richardson on Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:06 pm

    Good work, Mick!
    I'm currently rolling with a pair of Brown and Gold Gazelles.
    Worn without the slightest hint of 80's throw back.
    Job done.

    moldeeside

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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by moldeeside on Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:54 pm

    good call mick, i got my first sambas in 22 years at christmas and they`re still fine footwear.
    off subject slightly but what is your avatar picture? Is it off a film or something you`ve made yourself? I can`t decide if its tremendous, disturbing, or a bit of both !
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    Mick Tully
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    Re: least lethal self defense method

    Post by Mick Tully on Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:47 am

    The term you are searching for re;avatar is i believe....wrong,very wrong!
    Hahaha
    what about puma g vilas and their ridiculous soles?
    I have a pair box fresh ready to break out at the 1st sign of an 80's casual resurgance!
    Mick x

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