How much training to be an instructor?

OK, i know there was a bit of a, how shall i put it - "difference of opinion" on the other forum regarding what makes one an instructor and i don't want to open that can of worms again. However i am generally interested in what members think on this subject.

So, the question is - How much training do you think a person should have before they should be classed as an instructor.

I know this can be subjective to a degree, some people are more adept at picking things up, others seem to have a knack for getting across what they are trying to teach etc, but lets look at it from an average students perspective.
Do you think a person should be training for a number of years (or hours) before they should be teaching. Should the person be of black belt standard(what ever that is) beore they should be able to teach. If you are an instructor yourself, do you have a minimum requirement that anybody you certify has to meet?

Look forward to your input folks.

All of my formal training started with Karate in the 60's (that was all there was at the time). My intructor appeared competent but then I was only a kid! Eventually I got my black belt and started teaching. I was never taught HOW to teach it was just assumed that's what you did when you achieved that high grade. I'm positive I was shit as most teachers are but carried on regardless safe in the knowledge that I was a higher grade and therefore knew much more than my students. I think that's how it still is. I have seen some 'so-called 'great' Instructors over the years and as communicators they suck.

This is the problem. When any of my Muay Thai students graduate to the dizzy heights of Red Arm Band (Black Belt equivalent) they must take a course in NLP (a great Communication tool) and display the relevant performance skills. I haven't added this to the syllabus to make more money (although that might be a good idea!!!) but to ensure a high quality of instruction that is professionally communicated. Students always remember classes that were fun and informative with a fun and informed Instructor.

I would not qualify anyone as a teacher unless they could really teach...that is a different skill to technical ability in their chosen art.

So my answer would be anything from 12 months providing the Instructor could instruct and not just demonstrate techniques.

That's my lot!

Good post this and a subject i seem to never get away from, as a mate (ex world kickboxing champ) cannot grasp at all how i could possibly teach students anything as i have never won a "sport" fight.
In fairness the guy can't understand the whole rbsd thing but that's another story.
I started instructing by default so to speak after meeting Mike Woods he asked me to show some of his students some ground work and at the end of the class said i should teach! Having just moved to the area at the time and being strapped for cash and being coerced by Mike i went for it. Admittedlly things might have been different if i had had to find my own students initially however.
Personally i don't believe that any sort of qualifications mean anything as an instructor, you could have all sorts of techniques etc but if you can't get them across to your students so they can apply and understand them then what's the point? The main thing about instructing to me is for the instructor to be genuinely passionate about what he/she teaches and be able to get across what they are teaching effectively, be it techniques or a certain mindset to all different sorts of students and adapt their instructing as different students learn in different ways.
Instructors are judged on many different things, presence/communication/humour/patience and most of all in my opinion, credibility. A black belt 10th dan could be fucking awesome at teaching you techniques and how to get in the ring and fight under rules and regulations but hopeless at teaching you how to defend yourself from the average scally and vice versa.
I don't think there is any minimum time limit before you can teach, just having the relevant experience and the ability be a good teacher which as Bob Spour just said is a different skill to being able to kick or punch etc with proffiency.

If I were to get philosophical about this subject I would say that someone could learn to become a coach in one lesson! Yes, you read that right - one lesson! In other words I promote a self-teaching and empowering approach to training. Once you are feeding, being an uke or holding a pair of focus mitts for another student you have assumed the role of a teacher or coach. Your responsibility is make that student perform to the best of their capabilities. This is what I teach at CCMA. Simply put you better learn material if you teach it - you commit yourself to it. Ask any child whether they remember telling their parents about something they learnt at school and whether or not they retained that information.

This approach is quite new in martial arts circles, on the whole, but not very new in the world of business motivation or sport. The culture I have seen built up in many martial arts schools is one of multi-layered hierarchies, where students are supposedly empowered by being told what to do and eventually pass grades by doing what will please their instructor and/or his instructors. People can get confidence from this - just as they can from joining most types of clubs or groups - but is it really the most effecient way to turn out people who think for themselves?

I do not place a time limit on my gradings or when I feel it is time to grade someone to a coaching level. We take a very individualistic approach. Our syllabus contains no techniques just areas of competancy. Unlike most martial arts/self-defence clubs our assessments are carried out in front of an independent board of peers who are assessing me just as much as they are assessing my students. Time limits just do not fit in with the individualistic way I wish to take. I can't even think of an average time. Our coaching format at the moment is set to include government vocational qualifications (I am a level 3 OCR NVQ assessor), so a lot of what will need to be done for this qualification will be in line with these procedures.

Good topic Stuart.

I don’t really think it’s a question of time, but from my personal point of view it is a question of the following things:

1. First and foremost - the ability to coach, encourage and develop others. I don’t really care if you’ve had 100 fights on the door, 50 fights in the ring, or you are the most gifted student in the class. If you don’t have the communication and influencing skills to help someone learn, then you aren’t going to be an effective teacher.

2. A solid technical base. I don’t require physical excellence, but I do think a teacher needs to have a solid technical foundation. Martial arts by its very nature is a physical endeavour, therefore if you are to competently demonstrate the curriculum to your students, then a sound physical base has to be there. You can only talk it up for so long.

3. A desire to actually teach. A pet hate of mine is people who chase certification purely for personal affirmation, and then do nothing with it. An instructor should instruct, so if you aren’t going to use that position to help others learn, then don’t start down the road in the first place.

4. Functional ability. I’ll state up front that this is purely a personal preference, and I’m not saying that it is a pre-requisite to be a good teacher. However, all of the instructors that I respect are the ones who get in there and mix it up with their guys, and when called upon can really apply their art. Like I say, just a personal preference.

5. Finally, a big one for me - be honest about what you teach. I have no problem with someone being seminar trained, gaining credentials on a course, or becoming an instructor after a short period of time. However, the main problem I see on this whole topic are those people who get their foot on the first rung of the teaching ladder - then blow it out of proportion. The big name-dropping website goes up, lots of photos with famous instructors (usually all taken at the same seminar), and they completely misrepresent what they are qualified to teach. Common in my arena is new instructors, desperate to flesh out their experience, separate the component arts of JKD and claim to be teaching Jun Fan, Kali, Muay Thai, BJJ, CSW, Boxing, Silat, Panantukan etc etc. Its nonsense, to even study those component arts effectively takes decades. And sure enough, what happens is a local BJJ blue belt, or someone from a Thai class, or a local amateur boxer calls in to have a look. Needless to say, they walk out thinking that the JKD crowd are cowboys, and that’s a big part of the reason why we have a reputation. If you have only trained for a small amount of time, and have been given an instructorship to help you develop then good for you – but be honest about what you are capable of teaching.

great point about the JKD guys there Micheal. id assume that to be one of the reasons JKD has a tiered instructor system in place.
on another note, found out on monday night that my instructor, Sifu Carl Lewis has just gained full instructorship in the JKD wednesday night group, after 4 years of being associate instructor!

Nice post Michael and thanks for demonstrating your teaching excellence last night. It was a pleasure - many thanks!

No "backside" comments please - this is a family forum

Teaching my arse (see what I did there)

You were the one doing the kick correctly mate, I was just posing - don't go picking up that habit from me!

thats a toughie.

i know people who have a lot of knowledge but are not very good teachers. i also know people who dont know everything but the way they get across what they do know is brilliant.

a teacher should be able to answer any question, maybe not straight away but soon after. you have to remember how your students look at you, most will have complete confidence in you, anything less and most will walk away

im not an instructor, but heres what i think makes a great instructor for me:

must know his students abilities, and always cater to challenging them and ultimately improving them.

must be damn good at what they do.

must be willing to learn from their students, and be open minded to their students learning elsewhere also.

must encourage questions, and ensure understanding amongst students before moving on.

must not be in any way affiliated with people like this: http://myselfdefensesecrets.com/ - but thats another topic...

thats all i can think of off the top of my head.
luckily enough i found an instructor with all these qualities, and thats why i show up to every class, every week, just like clockwork, and so do the rest.
something to think about

Rick wrote:Sifu Carl Lewis has just gained full instructorship in the JKD wednesday night group, after 4 years of being associate instructor!

when it comes to jkd i think that Carl is one of the most knowledgeable in the country and the thirty years or so hes already put in,as well as the real life situations hes been in,qualified him many years ago,if your looking for traditional jkd with a big chunk of reality you wont go far wrong

my first training was with Carl and his students just over 5 years ago,an i get the feeling that when he joined the wng 4 years ago he was already up there with the best of them,

cheers
karl

Has Carl signed up here yet Rick? He'd be an awesome input. Hope this camp he mentioned will go ahead.

dunno mate. dont think so. think he looks in from time to time though. dont think he knows how to use it tbh lol.

Do a trade.....how to use the forum features in exchange for cheaper training? lol

I recently received this from Black Water and thought it was uplifting for us struggling instructors out there trying to make a difference by teaching something of worth.

WHAT DO INSTRUCTORS MAKE?


The dinner guests were sitting around the table discussing life. One
man, a CEO, decided to explain the problem with the educational
process. He argued, "What's a student going to learn from someone who
decided his best option in life was to become an Instructor?" He
reminded the other dinner guests what they say about
Teachers/Instructors: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." To
stress his point he said to another guest; "You're an Instructor. Be
honest. What do you make?" (Of course he meant in dollars…)

The Instructor who had a reputation for honesty and frankness replied,
"You want to know what I make? (Paused for a second… then began...)
"Well, I make recruits work harder than they ever thought they
could.
I make a passing grade feel like the Congressional Medal of Honor.
I make recruits sit through 50 minutes of class time when others cannot
make them sit for 5 minutes without being entertained... You want to
know what I make?
(Pausing again, and looking at each and every person at the
table.)
I make them wonder.
I make them question.
I make them criticize.
I make them experience what they need to know.
I make them have respect and take responsibility for their actions.
I teach them to communicate and then I make them communicate.
I make them listen, see and learn.
I make them show all their efforts in problem solving.
I make my students from other countries learn everything they need to
know in English.
I make my training space a place where all my recruits and students
learn safety and survival as well as job application to achieve the
goal set for them.
I make my students stand at attention to say the Pledge of Allegiance
to the Flag, because we are a vital part of… and represent… the United
States of America.
Finally, I make them understand that if they use the gifts they were
given… the knowledge and the experience they receive... apply them well
in hard work… and follow their hearts... they can succeed in life and
profession.
(Pausing one last time… and then continuing.)
"Then, when people try to judge me by the dollars I make and the
position that I hold in life, I can hold my head up high and pay no
attention because they are ignorant... You want to know what I make?

I MAKE A DIFFERENCE... What do you make?"