SILAT

As we have a lot of JKD guys on this forum I'd like some feedback...good or bad on various silat experiences.
I've always been fascinated by the various styles of silat, but haven't had access to lots of info on good silat.

Back in the day Serak was linked to JKD and I believe Bob Breen had an Instructor over teaching a seminar. Did anyone attend and what was their thoughts on this style?

Also Richard DeBordes- Harimau was in the UK for a long time and we have a handful of instructors still teaching this system. Did anyone train in this and add it to their self defence system?

More recently we have Glenn Lobo - Lincah silat and Steve Benitez- Walisongo & Cimande styles. What sort of things have these systems added to your self defence?

How come out of all the ALIVE arts JKD guys train in, the only one that I can see they train in that has djurus/patterns/katas is Silat...can anyone shed some light on this for me?

I have also heard of Marc McFann being an incredible instructor.......having no JKD, Kali, Silat experience is there any point attending one of his seminars or is it best to get 6 months training under ones belt first?

Cheers,


Adam.

adamuk wrote:
How come out of all the ALIVE arts JKD guys train in, the only one that I can see they train in that has djurus/patterns/katas is Silat...can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Not strictly true mate, you've got the Jun Fan and JKD wooden dummy forms, remembering as well that a number of JKD instructors are also certified in Wing Chun so you have these forms as well.

I've also heard great feedback about Marc McFann, as you know,my mate Paul Finn has hosted him a number of times for seminars and says he is superb. In my opinion i would get yourself along to the seminars even with a lack of training in JKD / Kali / Silat.

Also Paul has Rita Suwanda of Mande Muda Silat over next February.

Hey guys,
Thanks to Paul Finn i have managed to train on several occasions to train with Marc McFann and on his last tour was lucky enough to get a private lesson as well as train on the UFA weekend course
We worked mostly cimande and rikkasan from the mande muda system and basically it blew me away
i heartily recomend silat as an 'effective' style,and to anybody questioning its validity i would just say 'why would guys like Eddie Quinn and Gordon McAdam train in this with their muay thai!'
As for going on seminars with no experience,trust me if a numbnuts like me finds i can get a handle on it....anyone can!
Contact Paul Finn @ www.karasackali.co.uk
imho one of the best out there!
mick x

Adam,

The first important thing to remember is when you say that JKD guys train in Silat, that’s not necessarily the case. Guro Inosanto offers his students a menu of arts, this is called the Inosanto blend, its not JKD. JKD is each person’s individual interpretation and expression of Jun Fan Gung Fu, the concepts & philosophies of Bruce Lee, Guro Dan and most important of all – themselves. Outside of that each art is treated as it’s own entity i.e. you choose to train in and are therefore qualified in different arts. The Inosanto martial arts are not JKD, but rather JKD is a component part of the Inosanto martial arts. Sorry for the history lessons, but I think that’s an important distinction to make.

I’m a good example of that. I am a member of the Inosanto family, but I don’t train in Silat, well not through direct choice anyway. I’m a pretty straightforward guy, and that just translates into my training preferences. I like the simplicity of Jun Fan, the efficiency of PFS, the honesty of Boxing, and the sheer effectiveness of Muay Thai. Those are my chosen arts, for my own chosen path, that’s my expression of JKD. Everyone should be different, otherwise we have missed the whole point.

From what I have seen of Silat, I think it is a beautiful art, which given a very high level of attributes and an incredible amount of repetition, could be effective for some people. However, like many martial arts it takes the uncomplicated and makes it unnecessarily complicated, for no reason other than to indulge itself. Could it be effective in self protection? With a very talented student, an excellent teacher, and years of hard training then yes I think it could. Then again, if you had all of those things I bet you could run a marathon on your hands, and what a wonderful thing that would be. Still, it wouldn’t change the fact that the guy in front of you who did 6 months at a local running club, and bought a decent pair of trainers, would beat you very easily.

Cheers

MW

Great post mike
still cannot forget your face in edinburgh when i asked you what you hoped Guru would teach that day and then we started drilling
priceless!
Mick X

Great post mike
still cannot forget your face in edinburgh when i asked you what you hoped Guru would teach that day and then we started drilling
priceless!
Mick X

Great post mike
still cannot forget your face in edinburgh when i asked you what you hoped Guru would teach that day and then we started drilling
priceless!
Mick X

Thanks Guys for the feedback.

Michael- I appreciate the 'history lesson'. I think my original post lumping JKD, FMA, silat, etc all together was misleading. So cheers.

What arts do you use in your grappling?

Stu- I stand corrected, your also right about other arts having forms in them.


Silat is supposedly useful against multiple attackers, anti grappling tactics and armed opponents. All of this sounds applicable for the street. BUT do most if not all silat players and styles have some kind of unwritten rule not to get tangled up, e.g. pull guard when they grapple as it seems a simple tactic in multiple attackers would be to grab the guy and hold on until your mates jumped in also.

The silat grappling I have seen, they never pull guard and it looks nothing like MMA, wrestling, judo or other arts. It reminds me of TKD where they stay in kicking range whenthey spar.
Anyone know anything regarding this?

Do all style emulate animals?
Are there any systems that were designed for the human anatomy?


Cheers


Adam

Mick, thank you for your text, you are a gent. And yeah, my face must have been a picture!

Adam, my grappling (which is not my strong point) is from Erik Paulson's CSW, BJJ, and Paul Vunak's material.

With regards to your other points, I'll just tell you my general point of view on that. Try not to look at solutions to problems being defined or solved by arts. The guy who can handle multiple attackers, is just the guy who can handle multiple attackers. Someone who has a good percentage change against a weapon (thats all you can have) will just be someone who knows how to handle a guy with a weapon. These people can be from any art, there isn't one art that defines success - thats down to the individual.

As for anti-grappling, I think that issue has been address very clearly, and very publicy, for the last 15 years or so.

Adam,
i have been blessed to be a private student of Guru Tua Chris Parker ( which means Old Guru Lol) since 1993.
Last year i was graded to Guru Muda ( which means Young Teacher) which was my first grading after 15 years training and given the honour of being Lineage holder to Silat Fitrah, which means when Chris passes or retires the responsibility is all mine!!

With reference to Grappling,

One of the Key principles of Silat training is NOT TO CLING! remember if you cling on to something to much, a passing, a memory, etc in the end it will rot you..

from a self defence viewpoint, i dont want anybody who is not welcome touching me if he or she is not invited.......

i hope this helps.

Eddie

Mike- Try not to look at solutions to problems being defined or solved by arts.

I agree with this statement also Mike, but was actually interested in the concepts and ideas silat players use to maintain not getting caught up in a grapple.

Eddie- One of the Key principles of Silat training is NOT TO CLING!
Interesting Eddie, so it an unwritten rule so to speak, that all silat players wont grapple like a bjj player?
Could you explaina few other principles?


cheers,


Adam

I've always been unsure of Silat.
When I was doing JKD, the club I trained at taught Cass Magda's curriculum of Jun Fan, Kali & Silat. I was told that they specialised in Silat & that its what seperated them from other schools, including other Inosanto instructors (Cass Magda was one of Dan's students) & did it instead of BJJ. I was also doing BJJ at the time so I found this interesting. The Silat training we did was more traditional & complicated than the other training we did & made even Kali seem simple! I went to a Steve Benitez seminar in Birmingham to see what other Silat was like. What we did was even more traditional & complicated than what I was already doing. I've since seen some strange blindfolded knife defence videos on YouTube which have really put me off.
I'm not anti-Silat & would like to learn more but I got into JKD because I wanted my training to be simple, direct & non-classical & what we were doing wasn't. In the end I just stuck to BJJ. People may not want to cling but even boxers clinch & monkeys fall out of trees! (GT)

Mike

Good points in your post Michael, I have had similar experiences.

When I was a teenager I travelled a long way and paid quite a lot of money (for a kid) to attend a seminar that was clearly advertised as Jeet Kune Do. When I got there, the training involved people performing dances, in traditional Indonesian dress, with knives. I left halfway through, and the next day went and found my local Thai Boxing club.

That is not a criticism of Silat, because this wasn't an isolated incident. Its just an example of how people misrepresent what they are teaching, and unfortunately that is very common place in the JKD world. I made a decision some time ago to stop using names of arts to represent what I teach, and instead I just explain in plain English what someone can hope to learn from me.

I have also yet to purchase a skirt

Hey Guys,
I must say it is very weird for me to here all of your negative comments about Silat when i can only think of positive.
Maybe i am just the lucky one who found a great teacher that a great many leading martial artists look up to Rick young included. its strange that after training in Muay Thai for 20 years and this year being awarded the title of Arjarn,ive trained in Bjj, sambo, boxing etc but being Pesilat is where my heart is.
Take care.
Eddie

Hello Eddie,

I don’t think its weird, or negative per say, its just personal preference.

Several of my favourite aspects in the arts meet with their fair share of confusion and apathy with others, some of my passions are just not other people’s. In the same way, Silat isn’t one of mine.

What I will say to add balance is that my views are in a minority. Pretty much all of my instructors are big fans of Silat, many of my JKD colleagues are passionate students of the art, and some are very good teachers of it. But for me, for the body I have been given, for the way that my mind works, and for what turns me on in the martial arts – it just doesn’t fit me.

It certainly sounds like a real passion of yours, and clearly you have reached a superb level in the art. So much respect to you, and all the best in your own personal journey.

MW

Hi Eddie,

My opinion is definitely only based on the instructors I've trained with & what they've shown me or how we trained it. I wouldn't judge all of Silat on that. I've not trained with Chris Parker but have heard good things about him & it sounds like you have a great teacher.

Have you trained with Steve Benitez much? I think I remember you being at one of his seminars in Birmingham with some of your students. Some of my old training partners in BJJ also trained in Silat with Steve & I think maybe yourself & they loved it.

People have told me that the KFM looks like it has been influenced by Silat alot so I'm always interested in it. I wouldn't worry about negative comments, I can't think of many arts that have had more than the KFM since I've been doing it. Its beginning to sound like the Scientology of the martial arts!

Mike

P.S I'm a big Tom Cruise fan!

I did some Pentjak (sp?) Silat and some Bersilat in the early 1980's but not for long enough to really voice an opinion.. I did enjoy the training, but the only adverse comment I had based on my limited and personal experience was that the Silat I did was ONLY done against itself.. so we were doing Silat 'attacks' and defending using Silat .. I never saw anything done against headbutts, street swinging punches etc..
but then again my experience was very short lived

Morning Dave,
Funny you saying that, all of the above is covered in My Dvd volume 3 of The Approach series!! lol
Look forward to meeting you in Feb 2009 mate.
Best regards,
Eddie

Seamless but shameless plug!
great work sir
mick x

I've been studying Silat Suffian Bela Deri with Guru Maul Mornie for the past 2 years, basically to improve and ensure sound knife defence

The guy is awesome and a real gent (and only 31 year old)

His details can be found as follows http://silat-suffian.blogspot.com/

Hi Alun,

I've visited the site before & watched some cool knife videos on YouTube that I liked:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfy3AM-lSQ

&

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n7mWBtaQ6xo

Mike

Hi Mike

To use a cliche, Maul is the real deal. He has everything, not just blade work. To be honest, his profile is accelerating worldwide and its getting difficult to book him, I've only managed 4 official seminars with him in 2009, plus some one to one tuition.

If you get the chance, I suggest you train with him, you will not be disappointed.

Take Care
Alun

Hi Alun,
Can you give details of the dates please?

Hi Michael, ive trained with Steve Benitez half a dozen times, his movement is incredible, no offence to Steve but Chris Parker is my teacher and that is how it will be until one of us pass. however it is always good to have a open mind and train with as many great teachers as we can. Regarding KFM and silat, Andy used to host Steve Benitez for many seminars in Hull, from some of the clips ive seen of KFM some of the groundwork was pure Steve benitez silat groundwork. I think they were very tight at one point, i was at the opening of EWS and Andy had driven down from Hull for the opening. Anyway i hope things are good. best of luck in your training.

Best regards to all,
Eddie

Hi Eddie

Mauls Seminar Dates for 2009 with me in South Wales are as follows:

Saturday, 7th February 2009
Sunday, 26th April 2009
Saturday, 20th June 2009
Sunday, 25th October 2009

His website will contain all his 2009 dates, see post above

Regards
Alun